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| Quote ="Judder Man"I think those are more frustrating incidents rather than controversial, we,ve had similar ones with our Luke Douglas and LMS in playing the ball. It really needs to be stamped out were the opposition are still messing about when the ball is being played.
D.P. would have some justification if there was 6 point margin in the end result then the 50/50 's become more critical, perhaps D.P. like the cas fans have watched the game again and have seen some of the play a bit differently.'"
Yeah I totally agree. Don't start banging on about small incidents when we've been thumped 40 18 of which flattered us with late points when the cue was well and truly rested.
I watched the game last night on tv and at no point did I feel angered. Perhaps that was because I had the benefit of replays and stuff. Can understand why many assumed swift was a knock on who were there at the time. Fans can boo all they like and blame officials that's what fans do. But Powell is a professional coach.
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| Quote ="Towns88"Yeah I totally agree. Don't start banging on about small incidents when we've been thumped 40 18 of which flattered us with late points when the cue was well and truly rested.
I watched the game last night on tv and at no point did I feel angered. Perhaps that was because I had the benefit of replays and stuff. Can understand why many assumed swift was a knock on who were there at the time. Fans can boo all they like and blame officials that's what fans do. But Powell is a professional coach.'"
Exactly fans are going to be one sided and blame all and sundry. No issues with that, pros with the benefit of TV replays should be better.
Maybe he is frustrated at the fact his top players are out and so the team are under performing from what he expected.
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| Saints played very well...... correct
Our defense resembled 13 drunk men playing the game for the first time...... correct
The referee was rubbish and the standard is pathetic compared to 10 - 20 years ago despite being full
Time and paid more ..... correct.
What’s the problem ???
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| Quote ="Cas Till I Die"Saints played very well...... correct
Our defense resembled 13 drunk men playing the game for the first time...... correct
The referee was rubbish and the standard is pathetic compared to 10 - 20 years ago despite being full
Time and paid more ..... correct.
What’s the problem ???'"
No, the referee was not rubbish you want him to be to overshadow and deflect from Saints good performance and Cas’ poor one (yes I read your first two sentences). Powell’s exact words were ‘we couldn’t get a decision until the game was gone where we got one or two’. That sums it up for me, sore loser and taking his anger out on the referee. The penalty count was even despite Saints having more ball and Cas had a try incorrectly allowed. Your delusional and completely idiotic if you think the referee was against Cas last night. Cas as a club made themselves look like a laughing stock with the constant moaning about decisions that were correct. Booing after Morgan’s first try summed when Swift was quite clearly not in touch. Pathetic and also sore losers. Learn the rules and shut up would be my advice to Powell and the fans.
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| With every defeat DPs stock is reducing and he don't like it, hence the dummy spitting.
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| Quote ="AS108"No, the referee was not rubbish you want him to be to overshadow and deflect from Saints good performance and Cas’ poor one (yes I read your first two sentences). Powell’s exact words were ‘we couldn’t get a decision until the game was gone where we got one or two’. That sums it up for me, sore loser and taking his anger out on the referee. The penalty count was even despite Saints having more ball and Cas had a try incorrectly allowed. Your delusional and completely idiotic if you think the referee was against Cas last night. Cas as a club made themselves look like a laughing stock with the constant moaning about decisions that were correct. Booing after Morgan’s first try summed when Swift was quite clearly not in touch. Pathetic and also sore losers. Learn the rules and shut up would be my advice to Powell and the fans.'"
Saints were great as they have been all year, nobody is trying to deflect from that, at this point they have been far and away the best team, that doesn’t take away from the ref was pathetic and out of his depth FOR BOTH TEAMS !!!! I’d have thought being a saints fan your ego has been massaged enough all year by the sky team but it seems not.
Side note: I (and most other fans I speak to) really don’t care if you or Hull, Leeds, Wigan or Warrington fans think of us, iv been a member on here a long time and up until the last few years all I heard was how it would be great if someone else challenged the status quo and how little Cas were most peoples second team, now we’re tryig to build a winning mentality and are up there we are showing ourselves up as a club, Darryl Powell is the devil and Luke Gale is the most arrogant rugby player ever and last year we only won at home regularly because we our pitch was too small. Funny that isn’t it ? Shove your RL family
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| Quote ="Cas Till I Die"Saints played very well...... correct
Our defense resembled 13 drunk men playing the game for the first time...... correct
The referee was rubbish and the standard is pathetic compared to 10 - 20 years ago despite being full
Time and paid more ..... correct.
What’s the problem ???'"
The problem is that apart from Powell and a few Cas fans everyone else thought the ref was ok - what part of this don’t you understand?
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| When any coach, player, or anyone else acting in an official capacity criticises a match official for his/her performance in public it diminishes the game as a whole: we all lose. The point of criticism is for the object of that criticism to learn from their mistake - it should happen in private, at a match review session, with all interested parties contributing. That way we stand a chance of attracting more match officials to the sport, and of raising and maintaining a high standard of performance over time. It won’t stop individual below par performances in individual matches; referees are human, like coaches and players. But it will help to minimise the number of times that happens, as well as inculcating a better culture throughout the sport. Coaches have a particular responsibility in this regard. Powell’s sullen interview on Sky was unacceptable, acting directly against the interests of the sport; there are better (and more civilised) ways for him to have made his point.
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| Maybe, just maybe he wouldn't have had to resort to making a comment in public if Steve Ganson actually agreed to a meeting once in a while? He's consistently rejected any offer of a meeting to discuss certain decisions/lack of consistency in the game.
When the head of the refs is so up his own backside he doesn't want to hear valid criticism, what are the coaches actually meant to do?
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| The problem with a coach blaming the ref is that he is giving his players an excuse for losing.
It's not the ref who missed tackles or dropped the ball over the line.
The players should be looking at themselves to sort out their shortcomings but now they can shrug their shoulders as if it wasn't their fault.
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| Quote ="Gronk!"Maybe, just maybe he wouldn't have had to resort to making a comment in public if Steve Ganson actually agreed to a meeting once in a while? He's consistently rejected any offer of a meeting to discuss certain decisions/lack of consistency in the game.
When the head of the refs is so up his own backside he doesn't want to hear valid criticism, what are the coaches actually meant to do?'"
No idea whether the Ganson allegation is true or not but criticising refs after a win would certainly cut more ice than whining after a defeat - particularly following a TV game where most decisions were shown to be correct. If Powell's aim was to improve standards - which I doubt - he couldn't have picked a worse platform or a worse way to go about it.
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| Quote ="Cas Till I Die"Saints were great as they have been all year, nobody is trying to deflect from that, at this point they have been far and away the best team, that doesn’t take away from the ref was pathetic and out of his depth FOR BOTH TEAMS !!!! I’d have thought being a saints fan your ego has been massaged enough all year by the sky team but it seems not.
Side note: I (and most other fans I speak to) really don’t care if you or Hull, Leeds, Wigan or Warrington fans think of us, iv been a member on here a long time and up until the last few years all I heard was how it would be great if someone else challenged the status quo and how little Cas were most peoples second team, now we’re tryig to build a winning mentality and are up there we are showing ourselves up as a club, Darryl Powell is the devil and Luke Gale is the most arrogant rugby player ever and last year we only won at home regularly because we our pitch was too small. Funny that isn’t it ? Shove your RL family
'"
You need to get rid of the victim mentality.
The problem with you and DP trying to criticise the ref is he really wasn’t bad at all so trying to make out he was bad for both teams is disingenuous. Have you watched the game back?
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| Quote ="Cas Till I Die"Saints were great as they have been all year, nobody is trying to deflect from that, at this point they have been far and away the best team, that doesn’t take away from the ref was pathetic and out of his depth FOR BOTH TEAMS !!!! I’d have thought being a saints fan your ego has been massaged enough all year by the sky team but it seems not.
Side note: I (and most other fans I speak to) really don’t care if you or Hull, Leeds, Wigan or Warrington fans think of us, iv been a member on here a long time and up until the last few years all I heard was how it would be great if someone else challenged the status quo and how little Cas were most peoples second team, now we’re tryig to build a winning mentality and are up there we are showing ourselves up as a club, Darryl Powell is the devil and Luke Gale is the most arrogant rugby player ever and last year we only won at home regularly because we our pitch was too small. Funny that isn’t it ? Shove your RL family
'"
By bringing the referees performance into question Powell is giving an excuse for his players performance and whether you like it or not it takes away from the actual game itself and the performance. I’m not denying that the quality of officiating is poor but RL is a difficult game to referee and it’s being overused. Chris Kendall was good on the whole he got most decisions right and kept the penalty count low, I’m not sure what you’re wanting. The constant criticism of referees after good performances needs to stop, it doesn’t help anyone
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| Quote ="Clearwing"No idea whether the Ganson allegation is true or not but criticising refs after a win would certainly cut more ice than whining after a defeat - particularly following a TV game where most decisions were shown to be correct. If Powell's aim was to improve standards - which I doubt - he couldn't have picked a worse platform or a worse way to go about it.'"
He wanted to meet with Ganson last week after the Magic game where it was Kendall. So I really wouldn't be shocked if his problems with Kendall were from previous and something in the Saints game compounded it.
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| Quote ="Gronk!"He wanted to meet with Ganson last week after the Magic game where it was Kendall. So I really wouldn't be shocked if his problems with Kendall were from previous and something in the Saints game compounded it.'"
Get over yourselves, jeez
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| Quote ="Cas Till I Die"Saints were great as they have been all year, nobody is trying to deflect from that, at this point they have been far and away the best team, that doesn’t take away from the ref was pathetic and out of his depth FOR BOTH TEAMS !!!! I’d have thought being a saints fan your ego has been massaged enough all year by the sky team but it seems not.
Side note: I (and most other fans I speak to) really don’t care if you or Hull, Leeds, Wigan or Warrington fans think of us, iv been a member on here a long time and up until the last few years all I heard was how it would be great if someone else challenged the status quo and how little Cas were most peoples second team, now we’re tryig to build a winning mentality and are up there we are showing ourselves up as a club, Darryl Powell is the devil and Luke Gale is the most arrogant rugby player ever and last year we only won at home regularly because we our pitch was too small. Funny that isn’t it ? Shove your RL family
'"
Take it as a compliment. Fans of top clubs want to see new challengers but obviously they aren't going to want them to overtake their club are they? If people start to take a dislike to you that generally means you are considered a threat. I have always enjoyed Hull v Cas games anyway, but now that we are both up there and there is a bit more needle it makes them more enjoyable still. A proper meaningful rivalry is developing and the more of those the better.
I don't like the way Powell conducts himself alot of the time. If he isn't complaining about refs he is telling everyone how poor his team were. It seems that complimenting the opposition is really hard for him. Other than that I have no issue with Cas. Some fans got carried away and became a bit arrogant last year, but that's ok, it was a great season. Of all the teams that have a realistic shot at winning anything Cas would still be my second choice if it can't be Hull.
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| Quote ="Mr. Zucchini Head"Take it as a compliment. Fans of top clubs want to see new challengers but obviously they aren't going to want them to overtake their club are they? If people start to take a dislike to you that generally means you are considered a threat. I have always enjoyed Hull v Cas games anyway, but now that we are both up there and there is a bit more needle it makes them more enjoyable still. A proper meaningful rivalry is developing and the more of those the better.
I don't like the way Powell conducts himself alot of the time. If he isn't complaining about refs he is telling everyone how poor his team were. It seems that complimenting the opposition is really hard for him. Other than that I have no issue with Cas. Some fans got carried away and became a bit arrogant last year, but that's ok, it was a great season. Of all the teams that have a realistic shot at winning anything Cas would still be my second choice if it can't be Hull.'"
Not sure how relevant your first point was to the actual topic but as a general statement it’s spot on.
When Cas froze in last years GF you could positively feel the combined joy from Leeds, Wigan and Saints fans in general and most especially those who love the status Quo!!! Even better that Cas are not appearing as good as last year which just validate their snobbish opinions.
That’s not fair but as there are numerous reasons for Cas slight dip in form. Hoe er the Ref isn’t one and blaming him makes the whole club look stupid and just reinforces the elitists.
Ditto my own club Trinity - we won’t exactly lay down and die far from it but results have not gone our way and we are on possibly six points less than perhaps we might of been.
If we’d have been Wigan every week would be endless sob stories and brilliantly constructed excuses. We on the other hand have been dismissed as on season wonders who are slowly but surely heading back where we belong and as you say we will become an obscurity soon enough if we don’t change this season around.
That said our results are of our own making, we’ve had some rough calls and some were even game changes but then who doesnt? We need to respond positively as do Cas and I see absolutely nothing positive in what Powell said and imho he let himself down.
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| Quote ="vastman"When Cas froze in last years GF you could positively feel the combined joy from Leeds, Wigan and Saints fans in general and most especially those who love the status Quo!!! Even better that Cas are not appearing as good as last year which just validate their snobbish opinions.'"
As someone who lives in Cas and was well and truly sick of all the 'Champions' hype including merchandise as shown below, I laughed my 'ickle socks off!!!
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| Quote ="Cas Till I Die"Saints played very well...... correct
Our defense resembled 13 drunk men playing the game for the first time...... correct
The referee was rubbish and the standard is pathetic compared to 10 - 20 years ago despite being full
Time and paid more ..... correct.
What’s the problem ???'"
The problem is that the highlighted statement is not true. The referee was not rubbish, he actually had a pretty good game with the odd 50/50 decision going against you. That happens. It's a bloody fast game and the ref is only human.
Another point that has been muted on this thread is that Powell can be as angry as he wants regarding the referee, but it should never spill out into the public domain. I might be biased, but Radders is excellent post match regardless of the result and Powell could do with gaining some of that humility.
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| Quote ="vastman"When Cas froze in last years GF you could positively feel the combined joy from Leeds, Wigan and Saints fans in general and most especially those who love the status Quo!!! Even better that Cas are not appearing as good as last year which just validate their snobbish opinions.'"
Not really. Most of the Saints fans I was watching the game were miffed that the Grand Final was a one-sided romp for Leeds so I don't know how you got that impression.
As for Cas' drop in form. I'd suggest that's more to do with other teams improving their efforts e.g. Saints and Warrington. Take those two, with their NRL experienced coaches, out of the equation and Cas would be comfortably top 4. What Holbrook is doing is raising the standard of the game over here, which in turn is exposing the lack of quality coaching within this competition. The success last year was great but it was tied in with a competition which has been stagnating since Maguire left Wigan at the end of 2011. Now that coaching quality is rising again, so it becomes harder to compete.
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| Quote ="vastman"Not sure how relevant your first point was to the actual topic but as a general statement it’s spot on.
When Cas froze in last years GF you could positively feel the combined joy from Leeds, Wigan and Saints fans in general and most especially those who love the status Quo!!! Even better that Cas are not appearing as good as last year which just validate their snobbish opinions.
That’s not fair but as there are numerous reasons for Cas slight dip in form. Hoe er the Ref isn’t one and blaming him makes the whole club look stupid and just reinforces the elitists.
Ditto my own club Trinity - we won’t exactly lay down and die far from it but results have not gone our way and we are on possibly six points less than perhaps we might of been.
If we’d have been Wigan every week would be endless sob stories and brilliantly constructed excuses. We on the other hand have been dismissed as on season wonders who are slowly but surely heading back where we belong and as you say we will become an obscurity soon enough if we don’t change this season around.
That said our results are of our own making, we’ve had some rough calls and some were even game changes but then who doesnt? We need to respond positively as do Cas and I see absolutely nothing positive in what Powell said and imho he let himself down.'"
The majority of the fans from the "big" clubs had a lot of respect for the way Cas played the game and I don't think they would have complained at all if they joined the party and became superleague champions.
Come grand final day i reckon the question was Daryl Powell a good enough coach to get them over the final hurdle, it appeared not then the question later was Cas going to be one season wonders. It appeared so early in the season but Powell has got them firing a bit better despite the injuries to key players. There have been a lot of ups and downs with teams having the odd injury crisis to disrupt winning momentum.
Wigan and Saints have not had a lot of injuries to key players and there defence is a pretty hight standard, obviously thats why they are currently 1 and 2 in the league.
Warrington and Castleford look as though they can go up a level but there defence is currently not where it should be, still lots of games to play yet but I think there is more pressure on Warrington and Cas to be more consistent if they are to make a serious challenge.
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| Quote ="McClennan"Not really. Most of the Saints fans I was watching the game were miffed that the Grand Final was a one-sided romp for Leeds so I don't know how you got that impression.
As for Cas' drop in form. I'd suggest that's more to do with other teams improving their efforts e.g. Saints and Warrington. Take those two, with their NRL experienced coaches, out of the equation and Cas would be comfortably top 4. What Holbrook is doing is raising the standard of the game over here, which in turn is exposing the lack of quality coaching within this competition. The success last year was great but it was tied in with a competition which has been stagnating since Maguire left Wigan at the end of 2011. Now that coaching quality is rising again, so it becomes harder to compete.'"
Almost every part of that post validates my opinion that top sides are snobs - Holbrook has done sod all as yet and neither have Saints, nothing or nobody has be ‘exposed’ yet, your post is a crock.
Let’s see if your still boasting when McDermott or Wane come good at the end of the seaon as per (which incidentally is what happened to Cas last year) - learn from history is my advise.
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| Raising the standards of the game over here?? Good lord. Holbrook is doing well but christ he had a decent squad vastly underperforming and was handed SLs best player on a plate....an absolute gimme for a coach so far and as stated he's won nothing yet. Wigan arent exactly on fire, wires recovering from a horror season (a much bigger rebuilding job), Leeds are gone (for now), cas struggling and hull decimated with injuries yet saints are still nowhere near as dominant as Wire 2011 or Cas 2017. Holbrook looks a good coach so far but typical scouse hyperbole to have him down as some sort of coaching god and revolutionary here to save the British game.
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| Agreed. Sts aren't playing some revolutionary style, but they are playing with confidence and getting the best out of Ben Barba, who has genuine class.
I'd say Cas at their best last year were a better side than Sts this year. Some of their ball movement as a team was really top class, which a couple of NRL coaches commented on. The Eden no try was about the only time they showed similar flair in the GF, and showed what they could do if they could execute their plays. Luckily for Leeds Cas' ball control was U9s level whilst we managed something like U12s.
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| Quote ="ratticusfinch"yet saints are still nowhere near as dominant as Wire 2011 or Cas 2017'"
Cas in 2017 won the league by 10 clear points so can see how you can say Saints aren’t quite at that level of domination yet...
Wire in 2011 however finished top of the league 1 point in front of Wigan and 7 in front of Saints in 3rd. Currently Saints sit 4 points clear of Wigan in 2nd and 6 clear of Wire in 3rd.
Not sure how you can make the statement saints aren’t as dominant as Wire 2011 (who didn’t even make GF that year), or more importantly bou can say Wire dominated the league in 2011 finishing a point clear
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