Is that average +/- by club or, taking year on year totals for SL.
Replacing Bradford with Leigh wont help and then we're back to moving games for TV, Thursday night games etc, etc.
You're absolutely right about competing with Union (or the NRL), simply not possible, nor is it likely to be for the foreseeable future.

It's interesting that Wood was "credited" with luring both Catalan and Toronto into the domestic competition

Thursday night games are shocking and everyone knows it, think Leeds have something like 5 Thursday games in first half of regular season, that ridiculous.

I found it interesting and it bears out what I said in my first comment on this thread - SL clubs can't sell themselves, why does anybody think they'll sell the game as a whole? RL had a head start on RU in terms of being ingrained in communities but years of neglect have seen that advantage disappear to the extent even solid RL towns of a generation or two ago struggle to attract crowds some amateur football club do. That's down to the clubs themselves and maybe the 'product' justr ain't as good as the committed supporters think it is?

But TV bought the game and the game has not produced enough and so has been relegated away from weekend slots. To reverse that will take effort from SL clubs in attracting support and not just taking extra central funds and impoverishing the wider game, which of course shrinks the player and fan base to the detriment of SL clubs.

He has? Link?

Quote ="Roy Haggerty"He has? Link?'" Anyone of these links. www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/ru ... by-1031733 www.skysports.com/rugby-league/n ... al-officer www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/42621881

Quote ="Roy Haggerty"He has? Link?'" Anyone of these links. www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/ru ... by-1031733 www.skysports.com/rugby-league/n ... al-officer www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/42621881

Thanks for the feedback.
Tell me, which area was particularly boring for you?
EDIT:
Did some more digging about and there are some pretty interesting (to some but maybe not you Dave) facts regarding where we stand in respect to Pearsons target/enemy Union in terms of 1996-2017.

In 1996 Union had a combined capacity of 112,000 over their 12 grounds whilst with 10 of the same sides in 2016/17 this figure is now 203,000. Attendance figures for that first season are hard to come by as they were not used to having to declare their income to the Tax man

, but it's fair to say that they would have been pretty low as the following year the average was declared as 6,238. They had no TV deal that I can recall.

In 1996 we had a collective potential capacity of 205,782 over 12 grounds whilst quite bizarrely it is now 205,786 (2017) but we have only 5 of our original 12.....our first declared average was 6,571 and we were bankrolled to the tune of £87m by SKY TV as well as regular Challenge Cup games on the BBC. The earliest record of a Superleague match on SKY I can find on BARB is August 1998 with 2 games getting about 90k each.

Fast forward to the stats as they are now and it shows that we have increased our average gate by 30% and our TV income has more than doubled from £17 million a year to £40 million a year...a slow rate of increase no doubt impacted by our "negotiation" skills being crap in the last minute 2004 deal. We get TV figures ranging from 50k for the French feed on Saturdays to 160,000 for some games and out Grand Final is always watched by a large audience...358,000 over 2 channels in 2017

They on the other hand now have TV deal for their domestic premiership that's reportedly worth £55m a year and now BT have won the rights to the two top European comps as well, with FTA coverage of both comps planned. They got 338,000 BT viewers for a game over xmas, but are normally getting similar figures to ours.

It is fair to say that domestically, we have been treading water for 22 years whilst Union has leveraged itself a place in the market place that should and could have been ours. They are supported by a mammoth international game and I have no doubt that England RU winning in 2003 catapulted them into the public's psyche, but we held all the aces in 1996 and yet we find ourselves with a smaller TV deal, less public awareness, less media coverage, fewer viewers, smaller attendances and we still can't decide on what our league structure is for 13 months time.

I believe the key is community engagement.
In 1996 we were both running at 38% capacity of our grounds. By 2017 we were at 52% whilst they were at 88% and that is where I believe we have our biggest failing. I am all for Toronto, London, NYC or anywhere else putting their hands up, but there is no magic bullet....we have to build a solid foundation and whilst 4 of our 5 original SL clubs have made major gains in terms of capacity, average attendance and commercial stability, the rest of the competition is mainly about staying up......and as such, resources that could be spent on community engagement are spent on avoiding the drop.

Ignore Union and just get our own house in order before dreaming that NYC v Toronto is the answer.

Sorry if I bored you Dave

Quote ="Cokey"Anyone of these links. www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/ru ... by-1031733 www.skysports.com/rugby-league/n ... al-officer www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/42621881'" Blimey. Did not see that coming. I thought it was more likely that he'd become the new CEO, working for the SL clubs. There's an awful lot happening behind the scenes, very close to the start of the season. Has anyone found a journalist/commentator who actually has decent information who has set out what the developing themes are? I don't mean PR guff like Pearson's statements, but the story behind the story, as it were.

Quote ="Cokey"Anyone of these links. www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/ru ... by-1031733 www.skysports.com/rugby-league/n ... al-officer www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/42621881'" Blimey. Did not see that coming. I thought it was more likely that he'd become the new CEO, working for the SL clubs. There's an awful lot happening behind the scenes, very close to the start of the season. Has anyone found a journalist/commentator who actually has decent information who has set out what the developing themes are? I don't mean PR guff like Pearson's statements, but the story behind the story, as it were.

So Ian Lenaghan sent an email to all clubs in October. Basically saying the SL chairmen should control the distribution of TV money. And some other things, ie league 1 should go amateur.

Weather your for or against expansion most members on this forum, want the game to progress and move forward. To show the world this great sport that we all love.
It's sad that clubs chairmen aren't really interested in the sport just the money. And just follow the same short sighted view.

I understand there clubs are there first concern. But don't they release that by making the game strong (in all divisions), the rest & Money should follow.

The problem is that all clubs, especially ones like London, Halifax, Fev have ambitions for SL, but are not and will ever be SL ready unless they engage their communities.......if SL close the trap door and we return to Franchises then there will be casualties and clubs will fold, but that is the unfortunate reality of sports as a business in the 21st Century. If fax or Fev could get their gates up to 7k in the Championship, then by all means let them in, but small sports like ours can't afford to play the 1 up 1 down game....we do not have the depth.

Toronto, for all their bluster and inflated gate announcements will soon realise that unless they can convince North American TV execs that a sport popular in a region of the UK is worth spending hundreds of million on to promote and show, then they will be nothing more than another rich blokes toy and go the way of London.....
...growth must come from the bottom up. The smoke and mirrors of the wolfpack starting at C1 is just a sideshow. They spent more on their team then the rest of the division combine d and will be over the cap in 2018 regardless of what anyone says....but if they arrive at SL and don't come armed with a TV deal, they will soon be as welcome as a fart in a spacesuit and will be cut loose......

I'm not sure all clubs do want to be in Super League. Some of the ambitious one yes, clubs like Batley/Dewsbury etc. Release that at the moment they are at there level. What they would probably like is a more even championship that would make it competitive, which in turn could bring in more fans and extra money. Not the 2 tier we have at the moment (with regards the money Leigh/Toronto etc have). A stronger championship should in turn benefit SL in terms of any clubs promoted be better equipped to deal with SL.

I'm a firm believer that whatever happens with any club should be down to what's happened on the field, and this should be the most important thing. Take away that, the sport becomes redundant. Yes the rest of it should be an aspect, but nothing more than that.

I don't think it'll happen this year. But I do feel Toronto have to have a bad season, one where not everything is for them before the season starts. And they struggle, then we and them will know exactly where they're at. What they need to do, and weather they can be a viable addition to RL. At the moment they look good cause a full time squad that had the league 1 salary cap, and the way promotion was decided changed for them, did what they were expected to do.

I was under the impresssion the DH was two games that were each given the same full attendance in the cumulative totals, also the event capacities increase the available capacity hence reducing the percentage fill

.... whilst you concentrate on DECIMAL point scoring over attendances v % capacity, their comp is still 88% full and ours isn't...and that's what creates media, dictates TV deals and makes them seem bigger. Skew the stats whatever way you want if it makes you feel better, but the reality is that 91,000 more people watched a Quins home game over 11 matches than watched Leeds over 11....the number for Saracens is 40,000+....Bath, Leicester, Northampton and Wasps are also more popular it would seem.....how many of them are on the M5?





Downtrodden? WTF?? Of 24 top flight clubs in either code his club is 11th in terms of attendance and his stadium averages 46% capacity......rather than blaming everyone else, why not fill the stadium or at least half fill it? Christ...WASPS moved to Coventry and in a few years they average 19k.......were they downtrodden at Loftus road or in High Wycombe?

Does young Adam really believe that there's a snowballs chance or Perez arriving with bundles of cash to save to sport?



The only people who can save the sport are the marketing people at our heartland clubs. Get the locals back into attending before you expect a Lumberjack to embrace the sport....

Not every guy running a SL club can be as good as Gary Hetherington. Kept us up and around the same avg attendance figure for nearly a decade whilst the likes of Hull, Wigan and Wire are a few thousand down for where they were 5/6 years ago. Done so even without the modern facilities of those other teams stadiums and a South Stamd that was condemned over 10 years ago and loss of Bradford which was at one point getting up around 20k attendance. Obviously drop this year due to the two main stands being built but will be looking upwards from next year.

COMMUNITY MARKETING......to be fair, Wigan seem all over it too. Wire and Hull are in the comfort zone but need to step up...... everyone else MUST TRY HARDER

Hull KR have seen a steady increase for the past 3 years of season ticket sales including our year in the championship. The average attendance however did drop for our season in the championship as we didn't have the usual derbies or the targeted games for increased attendance that we've had in SL. We are moving in the right direction and hopefully we can carry on increasing our attendance and growing the brand.

Actually I agree with your points about the onus on clubs marketing their RL, rather than expect overseas clubs with mass wealth getting on board being the solution. I'm not sure what will fix RL long-term but your comment made sense

Actually, Rovers are very active in the local community. Have a tie in with 2 schools & the 6 form college. Have just recorded records sales In merchandise. And as posted before have a good record in season tickets.
This despite having 2 clubs in the same city. And useless public transport to and from the ground.

Part of the problem is Thurs & Fri games, as people who don't live in the city of there clubs, work, rely on public transport (I'm all of these), just can't go. And it's harder to get back going. Especially as there's games on TV to watch.
For me to go on a Friday, involves having to get a B&B as I can't get back. This obviously affects attendence both for home and away fans.

How do you expect Halifax and fev to get 7k crowds playing the likes of Dewsbury and Oldham when wakefield v salford huddersfield v widnes does not even get 4k these days

hudds v widnes attendance 5253 when last played in july

Bath has a similar size population to Halifax........Bath fill their ground 11 times a year......find out how they do this and try to emulate it!

Never forget. I run Rugby League. It will be done my way

Regards

The Sleeve

Just for you Maurice....oh and downtrodden Adam Pearson. The results of a recent "yougov" poll are in!
[urlhttps://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/01/10/what-most-boring-sport/[/url

Meanwhile....in your soaraway scum
[urlhttps://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/5307521/massive-changes-coming-in-rugby-league-heres-13-things-sunsport-wants-to-see/[/url

Unfortunately for many on here (and other forums) reality doesn't strike a chord. Simply because they (and TBH I) believe that RL is TGG they think that everyone else has the same view. Until the reality of how we are actually not that 'big' the sport will never really expand. As I've already stated I expect the 'coup' that is obviously coming will just demonstrate that some egos are bigger than the game actually is in the UK......