still not so much as a shovel on site there yet, be surprised if cas are playing there this side of 2020 or 2025 or ever

Quote ="Charlie Sheen"They have rubbish grounds by PL standards, but they're still relatively decent grounds. Everton are getting a new ground anyway.'" Yes and it's going down swimmingly..... www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-me ... e-39419843

Quote ="Charlie Sheen"They have rubbish grounds by PL standards, but they're still relatively decent grounds. Everton are getting a new ground anyway.'" Yes and it's going down swimmingly..... www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-me ... e-39419843

In an ideal world both teams would have been in new stadiums years ago but things went wrong along the way for both sides. If things can get sorted for both then that's the perfect situation.

I can't work this out, i agree, i wish all RL was played in 50k all singing and dancing stadiums to fanatic full houses.

"If things can get sorted for both then that's the perfect situation" what is the "perfect situation?

Leeds are funding the South Stand out of their own cash.

The details of the RL North Stand/football stand arrangement has not been fully revealed at the moment. However it appears to be being financed by a PFI-esque arrangement, whereby Yorkshire and Leeds have a stand built for them (on their land) by a third party investment house. The third party then rents this building to the landowners (Leeds and YCCC) for a period of decades.

Not sure Leeds were too fussed about this structure but a way had to be found to keep the debt off YCCC's books which is what this achieves.

The involvement of Leeds City Council is unclear - it looks pretty likely that they have provided some guarantees and may have introduced the third party as it's similar to how PFI worked in terms of keeping debts off the books. But it's very unlikely they will be stumping up any cash.

How much do you think Wigan council tax payers payed towards the lsv stadium?

We don't actually share , Man Utd ( and formerly Blackburn Rovers reserves ) reserves rent the LSV

They were not originally any part of the deal to build it , Leigh RMI ( formerly Horwich RMI who's shareholders had bought Hilton Park ) were the partner tenants at the beginning

And also for your information Wigan council didn't put any money into the building of the LSV , it was all funded by private investment and grant funding , the council provided the land , which had already been earmarked for private development

HTH

For the umpteenth time this thread.... Wakey are =#FF0000[size=150NOT[/size asking the council for money.

The land was taken out of greenbelt under the condition that a new stadium would be constructed on the site, after a certain amount of warehousing was occupied.

Once the land was out of greenbelt, the developers submitted a further planning application without the stadium, that the council then approved.

We want:
1) To know why the council saw fit to sidestep the ruling of the secretary of state and allow the developer to circumvent the original plan

2) Them to enforce their own damn planning laws.

If Wigan council didn't put any money into the stadium, they must be some of the best negotiators around, as they now own the stadium. Perhaps they should lead the brexit negotiations.

Genuine question, who did you get a grant from?

They don't actually own it , they underwrote the project initially and oversee the running of it via a trust and a stadium management co ( Im not 100% sure on the trust part , others will know more ) but they do own the land

It is/was all quite complicated with several grants and money from Greenbank development company

You have to remember we are talking about the whole site here , not just the stadium

Edit

Yes it seems they do own it , but they didn't provide any construction costs for the stadium

I am not a troll, do not have a deep hatred of Wakefield or have an axe to grind, but I'd like a grounded Wakefield fan i.e. not Vastman to answer the following questions in an impartial manner without looking at my username and thinking this is an attack on the club from a rival. I'd like educating please (there's a first for a Cas fan

) so I can have a full clear view of the full facts rather than what P.Box/WMDC have or haven't done over a set period. I think a lot of people in this thread are confused and suspicious as it's only a certain timeframe that Wakefield fans are wanting to bring up.

I'd like to to ask:

-Why do Wakefield not own Belle Vue? Who did they sell it to and when, and what happened to the money?
-There are rumours amongst some Castleford supporters that in the early 2000's Wakefield council helped Wakefield Trinity by either giving them money to buy Belle Vue, or buying back the ground on their behalf then leasing or selling it back at a much reduced rate. Is there any truth in this?
-Again, there are rumours when Wakefield council offered £X million to both clubs to work on building a new stadium together, Wakefield turned it down and wanted to go alone. Is this true?
-What proof is there that Castleford get special treatment from Peter Box and Wakefield Council? Neither club seems to be further ahead than the other. Supposing the retail units are built at J32 but the stadium isn't enforced mirroring the situation Newmarket, does that mean neither club is favoured and that the council simply don't prioritise sporting facilities?
-Why did Rodney Walker quit, what does he know about the stadium issues, he was one of the most vocal but seemed to walk away and now seems to be absolved of anything to do with this saga.

I have every sympathy with Wakefield Trinity, and despite the press releases I am doubtful Castleford will get a new ground....I have a flyer in my possession from 1996 distributed by Cas with info on the new ground to be built at Whitwood....that's 21 years ago! I still wish both clubs [iand[/i WMDC had worked together to explore the possibility of a shared stadium near Normanton because I'm damn sure it would have been built by now.

On a final note I find it frustrating when non league football clubs (Maidstone, AFC Telford, AFC Flyde), averaging no more than 2,000 can get new stadiums built, while Wakefield and Castleford averaging 5,000 ish and 8,000 ish can't.

Belle Vue was sold last year: sw.co.uk/news/974-wakefield-s-be ... -new-owner

Belle Vue was sold last year: sw.co.uk/news/974-wakefield-s-be ... -new-owner

To the best of my knowledge;

1. The stadium was sold to pay off existing debts and to help provide capital towards developing a new stadium

2. Wakefield council took control of the ground and rented it back to wakefield trinity and then sold it back to the club at a profit to the council

3. Several years ago Wakefield council offered both clubs £1m each to develop their own stadiums, this offer was then quickly withdrawn. In the past 20+ years there has never been meaningful discussion about the prospect of the clubs sharing and as such, neither have walked away from a shared deal

Thankyou.

Most Cas fans will disagree with me but even now I'd be willing to see Cas sit down with all parties, draw a line under everything that's happened and see if enough funding can be put together to build a shared stadium somewhere halfway between the two clubs.

So would I, it makes sense for the clubs to be equal shareholders in a community stadium. The best place would be Normanton but to be honest, the Newmarket Lane development would be just as good. It's 5 miles from the Jungle, and 4.5 miles from Belle Vue, right on the side of the motorway and would be owned by a community trust.

I am however hopeful that Cas do secure their own stadium even though I'm confused as to why they are being allowed to buy an S106 community asset worth several million for £1

this would be ideal for all parties. but the biggest (or one of them) issue is neither side wish to have a stadium or share a stadium that is not seen as being in the town. both sets of supporters see it as a step to a merger. the whitwoodd site 20 years ok was ideal, but that ship sailed. a side somewhere between Normanton and cutsyke could still be an option, yes its still closeer to Castleford but so what.
another option would be for WMDC to plough money into additional development of post office road and have all 3 sides play out of that. its smack in the middle then. it could be what foxborogh is to the new England patriots smack between Boston and providence. only on a smaller scale

You need to look at the difference between " multi-party agreement" (Castleford) and "unilateral undertaking" (Wakefield). There is your answer.

You might have forgotten that Tigers are in no rush whatsoever to leave Wheldon Road and a large number of fans are quite happy staying in our owned stadium. Whereas Wakefield are the total opposite - they do not own Belle Vue (paying rent to MMicon_cool.gif and for H & S reasons need to move out.

Neither Steve Gill or Michael Carter are demanding, or have ever demanded the council build them a stadium. How many times do you need to be told.?

Don't think Jungle is in much better condition to be fair, collapsing walls and exploding floodlights in the past few years.

The trouble with these old grounds is the cost to maintain them. Cas could find themselves in a very similar situation if the new ground doesnt come off for whatever reason.

the fans may not be the the club are, they are years behind and miss out massively in corporate revenue and day to day revenue of wheldon road. they can generate millions more with a good commercial set up. leeds do massive amounts in this and this will only go up with new north and south stands. and as stated above wheldon road may not be as bad as belle vue yet but its onl;y a couple of years of being that state. wakefield council have ravaged the 5 towns arrea last few years closing all 3 pools and sports centres. they are planning a new one but only for pontefract. they should be putting the lot in with a new stadium and genuine multi sports community complex, whether that be at glasshoughtonse or normanton way but they should be doing more.

Again, it isn't cash that is lacking (although I cant see either club turning it down), it's the political will to enforce what has already been agreed.

Correct - ground maintenance is expensive. Lucky for us we have had a major shareholder who owns a building company fix the wall and a director who owns a electrical company do the floodlights - all at little cost. The maintenance work we do at Wheldon Road is essential but we own the ground so, we expect these repairs and budget for these costs.

This is where you (Wakefield) are stuck between a rock and a hard place - why do essential maintenance work when you don't own the ground and the new owner has no will to upkeep it for you either.

If its not cash lacking thats the problem then why close knottingley sports centre, why knock down the library, why cut almost all but essential spending in that town, there may be cash aplenty in Wakefied itself but not to its furthest eastern outposts.

Add Castleford Baths and all municipal golf including Pontefract Park to that list.