They've been gradually building towards this since Mcnamara took over in 2010. The regular training camps, the professionalism of the set up, fresher younger players being selected, the cohesion of the team play. McBanana cops some flack but he's set some real foundations in place.

What it needs now is a top quality coach to swoop in and add those finishing touches to what has been built. Like Maguire taking from noble at wigan. Smith from powell at leeds. Someone who comes into the team with everything in place and pushes them on to that next level.

I know it's not a popular model, but England's current talent is result of the franchising system. Clubs weren't recruiting to stay afloat and are producing there own talent, I know the top 4 have always promoted but this England has an even spread from all clubs. 10 years ago you wouldn't of had players from cas or huds in the team. Long may it continue when you compare this England to the England of 2008

I agree 100% and said the same at the game today.

McNamara has improved many things but we just look like we need somebody to push his hard work over the line.

Either way a long term de idiom needs to be made. If he stays then he stays until after the next World Cup as a minimum.

Worst thread ever but anyway, the last time Jared Warea Hargreaves spearheaded the Kiwi pack they lost by 30.

didn't read the thread just saw the author so instinct tells me

Going to show my bias here...you think Hill wouldn't make the first 17? For me it was between him and Graham for player of the series.

Who cares. A badly depleted England team managed by Mcbannana whohasnt got a clue, managed to beat France by about 200 points recently.

Super league has been so good for the french national team hasnt it

Regards

King james

At the start of this series when I thought about a potential 17 if George Burgess/Walmsley been fit I'd have possibly considering a team without Hill in it. I couldn't have been more wrong!

Literally the first name I'd put on the sheet now. He has been excellent and is constantly racking up the metres. Aside from one poor offload today he's been immense.

What a group of props we have by the way! Hill, Graham, George Burgess, Tom Burgess, Cooper and Walmsley. That's a scary set!!

Silliest comment ever.

You obviously didn't watch the Sydney Roosters in 2015. In the latter half of the season JWH was the outstanding prop in the NRL -- better than either James Graham, Jesse Bromwich or George Burgess.

A lot of players potentially classed as missing for England as well!

I've included McGillvery and Smith because they missed 2 of the 3 Test matches

Tomkins
McGillvery
Reed
Watkins
Hall
Widdop
Smith
Graham
Roby
G Burgess
S Burgess
Whitehead
O'Loughlin

Houghton
Hill
T Burgess
Walmsley

Regarding Graham. It may just be me, but I don't think he's been as good in this series as in previous tournaments. He's looked slower, he passes less at the line, and he runs an odd diagonal angle that reduces his go forward after contact, and takes up the space of the runners outside him.
Based on the evidence so far I don't think the NRL has made him any better than he was.

Jason Taumololo and JWH in his recent form have been inspirational forwards like the two missing Burgess brothers, George and Samuel.

But the actual play making skill level missing from the Kiwis this series, in the form of Kieran Foran and Shaun Johnson is the major factor that has no equivalent among the missing Englishmen.

Jeans is probably right,New Zealand would have won with a full compliment out,but lets be honest England could have won this series 3.0 if things had gone a little bit different in the second test.

Cant help thinking i wish this series was against the aussies cos we'd probably have won 3.0

not sure I agree with that, Sam is a world class player who would start over Hardaker every time for me. Thought he was average at best during this test series Zak

re: Hill - yeah.

Our first four prop are George Burgess, Sam Burgess, James Graham and Alex Walmsley, but if Sam were to play 13 then Hill would be next in for me.

Johnson has been a huge miss but Forsn seems like a total myth to me! I've never seen him produce anything against us and I was far more impressed with Nikorima.

Another player I'm starting to think is an NRL myth is Martin Taupau. He's been about as difficult to handle as Ricky Bibey! Where has his huge rep come from?

do you really believe this?

I got no problem with you having a view that Hardaker is a better FB then tomkins but to say he is a different class is way OTT.

Like I have said before, tomkins injury free at his best is a better support player then Hardaker and offers more attacking threat. I think you are forgetting how good Tomkins was when he was previously in Super League.

This is what us Wires have been saying every year when it comes to Man of Steel nominations. Hill is this good (quality in these three games for England) in every game but seems to go under the radar a bit (as do many forwards to be hornet, it's all the flair speedster try scorers or try assist men who keep winning MOS these days). Last season he was fourth in metres made, third in tackles made, fifth in carries; he was the only player in Super League in the top 5 in each of those three categories. He's got really good footwork, is a good passer of the ball for a big man - some big men are just bowling balls, head down, run in (and are effective at that, granted) - he dominates tackles/the ruck. All round fantastic player.

As for the other props we have, I'd argue this is the best set of props in rugby league history. With Sam Burgess coming back too. It's a frightening set of props.

Where I worry about England is in the halves. We do not have good halves. Thurston and Cronk, Johnson and Foran (with players in reserve three and four deep who would walk into our 6 and 7 shirts) make our lads look like a joke.

The problem England are going to have with Sam Burgess is where to play him.

In previous years, you might have wanted him in at loose forward, so he can still play in the middle unit but isn't stealing minutes off the likes of Hill, Graham and his brothers.

But with O'Loughlin seemingly a fixture in the side, that isn't going to happen.

Might an option be to play him in the second row? Neither Whitehead nor Farrell were particularly impressive over these three games, and Burgess would certainly provide a stronger ball-carrying option running into half-backs and centres rather than smashing down the middle against the big guys.

I hear he's been playing quite a bit at centre in the past few months

O'Laughlin will be 34 come the next World Cup. He played well in the first and third tests in this series but was poor in the second test. Plus whatever position Sam Burgess plays, he will be first choice.

I'm delighted for us all at the mo, players and fans alike because its being tough for us all this last few years or 20!

This win has being coming for a while now, yes the kiwis had a few players out but so did we,
Put Sam Burgess in for Farrel and Reed who is a genuine left centre, add in form Sam Tompkins and and we will beat the Aussies,

This isn't a false dawn for us

Well done ENGLAND!

Agreed - it wasn't perfect but we were better over the three games. Let's hope we've got a full squad for the 4 nations and the world cup.

Was wondering today if Sean O'Loughlin may step down from England duty thus year

Tomkins' attacking prowess couldn't be disputed. Quite how well he'll go on his return is a big unknown though. Pace played a big part in his game and how much he'll retain is far from clear at the mo.

Yes but Tomkins shouldn't be picked next year based on what he did for Wigan back in 2012 or 2013, it's got to be because of what he does in 2016 that should determine whether he gets a shirt.

Tomkins in a England or NZ Warriors shirt hasn't come close to matching what he did for Wigan, which was a couple of years ago now.