Hardaker FB Tomkins Half back.Should have happend last year, has to this.

Tomkins isn't good enough to watch England play never mind be in the team

Tomkins should be in the halves for England. He's so poor at some of the regulation fullback responsibilities its not funny. But he is easily the best player we have at making space in attack.

As for Widdopp, I think we saw the problem he and Marshall have - when only one of them plays they both look much better.

Tomkins really does appear to have gone backwards during his stint in the NRL. His safety under the bomb and defence has always been questionable and certainly the weaker part of his game, but in SuperLeague he more than made up for this by being such a threat in attack - however in the NRL this aspect of his game has deteriorated significantly - he's not scored a single try this year and is hardly leading the 'assists' table either.

I'm not sure exactly what it is, but he appears reluctant to take on the line - it's like he's worried about the defence getting to him - is it his injuries that he's protecting, is it that his injuries of ruined his confidence, or is he just worried about the bigger, stronger, more organised NRL defences?

He used to be deceptively strong in the collision when returning kicks or taking on the line, he'd often come drive through a strong tackle and still break free, however his kick returns are pedestrian in the NRL - though most times he hands off to his wingers wherever possible, he chimes in round the back, but doesn't take the ball to the line like he did in SuperLeague, he either passes on or almost gets ready to surrender to the tackle.

I really don't think his form can warrant selection in any position for England currently. It will be interesting to see if his confidence with ball in hand suddenly returns when back in the comfort of a Wigan jersey against SuperLeague defences - if it doesn't, Wigan have got a very expensive dud on their hands.

There is currently no contest between Hardaker and Tomkins for the no1 shirt at the moment. Hardaker is streets ahead and Tomkins has had 27 more goes at it than Zak so time to pass it on me thinks.

Barring injury, Widdop will get picked in the halves regardless of how he plays throughout the season and that is partly down to the lack of quality we have elsewhere, eg

NZ - Tomkins
Wigan - Smith
Leeds - McGuire
Hull - Sneyd
Salford - Chase
Widnes - Brown
Warrington - Myler
Castleford – Gale

Is Tomkins the best of a bad bunch?

Personally I think McGuire has played himself back in to contention for an England shirt with this seasons form. Whether it happens is another thing.

I wonder if his threat is neutralised partly because broken play was his meat and taters, and there's less of that in the NRL due to their metronomic defensive structures?

Whatever the cause, I'd agree - he's looked decidedly average, which he clearly wasn't in SL.

As for Hardaker - he's just electrifying at FB; no contest for the England spot, provided the coach can forgive his past transgressions.

What are the regulation responsibilities of a fullback in Super League these days? Think Wellens was the last traditional fullback. Hardaker is no better than Tomkins with high balls and one on one tackling. Another position following the way of hooker out of the game.

Dixon showed some good one on one defence for Hull KR v Leigh but was poop at everything else.

Worst attempt ever.

Paul Wellens says you're wrong.

Paul Wellens ‏@pwello80 Aug 7
Hardaker been the best FB in the comp this season and by some distance. Values defending as much as attacking. Refreshing.

Tomkins under the high ball = Bottleless. Proven on many occasion.

Zak under the high ball = You can put your life on it. Absolutely solid no matter who or how many have him lined up.

Don't bite Neil,



Let Wollo Wayoo cast his line elsewhere,

He dropped one out of about 7 and caught the rest, and that one was with a gale force wind in his face and driving rain.
I agree Hardaker should be England full back but don't write Sam Tomkins off just yet, he's only 26 years old playing in a poor team that are missing their best three players, and has just come back from an injury lay off. His defence has been ok, i didn't see him miss a tackle in his last game, even though the warriors were hammered.
It's true he hasn't set the world alight over there and he looks like he just wants to come home, but he's still a class player and I still feel he is worthy of an England spot in the halves alongside Widdop.

i would have Hardaker over Tomkins at FB every day of the week.. even with all his failings.

He is a much more complete player.

Sam Tomkins' form won't have any affect on whether he represents England or not, his name alone ensures he gets picked!

People keep bemoaning our perceived lack of quality in the halves, but should we panic? Look at Cronulla in the NRL. They are going great guns, and, with the greatest respect, their halves are a journeyman (Jeff Robson), and a kid (Jack Bird). Neither look better players to me than (say) the current Wigan halves, or indeed most SL sides. And yet on the back of good go-forward, organised and committed defence, and some skill and pace in their outside backs, the Sharks are going great guns. League is a team game, and there's a lesson there for us all.

I find this Tomkins debate quite interesting. There is no doubt a significant number of people were praying he would fail. If people were expecting him to be the stand out superstar in the NRL that he was in SL they are naive at best.

Wigan's game plan revolved around either creating space for him or using him as a foil to create space on the flanks for others. There's no doubt IMO he is a class player, perhaps at Wigan he looked better than he actually is as everything seem to revolve around him.

At NZW he's not the 'superstar'. SJ has that tag, and rightly so. From what I've seen they have used him in a very different way to what Wigan did. He has been partly used as a link player between the halves and backs, he's been often deployed at dummy half to give the hooker a rest in games. As the game plan doesn't revolve around making space for him to run into it's a no brainier to work out he's not going to make the breaks that everyone remembers him doing over here.

As for his defence, it has improved significantly since he was moved to full back. The stats on errors, missed tackles etc are comparable to Hardaker's. Perception is a strange thing. One huge advantage Hardaker has, which can't be underestimated in today's game is he's bigger. That makes it harder to disrupt him under the high ball and gives him a better chance of making a one on one tackle.

As to who is a better full back. I'm honestly not sure. It would be interesting to see how Hardaker would perform in the same NZW team, as that's not going to happen it's simply individual opinion. I'd like to think we can find room for both of them in the England team. As I said earlier I'd like to see Hardaker at FB and Tomkins at #6. I also wouldn't complain at Hardaker in the centres and Tomkins at FB.

hardaker is a full back, a specialist full back. Tomkins always looked like a six at full back, he never looked liked he enjoyed defending and was certainly not great under the high ball.
hardaker is better at running from deep while Tomkins was certainly better nearer the line.
for me, at full back, i'd have hardaker every time

Jaysus the delusion in this thread. Hardaker is not a better player than Tomkins.

Yes he is.

But that's not what (most) posters are saying, is it?

Next joke.

In this thread? the majority are saying exactly that.

Only when read with Wigan paranoia.

Most are saying he's more of a natural full back and/or that his form is better.

Almost everyone has said that both should play for England (which the ape Wane has also said today)

Is the purple cheese from your bellend? Or did Tomkins leave it around your mouth?

Sam Tomkins is the better player
But Zak Hardaker is the better FB

Also for all his attacking ability, Tomkins hasn't really produced it now in several attempts vs the Aussies and Kiwis so far. He might've done one or two good things but he's meant to be included to be the one to terrorise them.

With Briscoe now returned from injury and playing really well then you'd really have to consider an all back 3 of Hardaker, Briscoe and Hall. I know their's some very good wingers out there and Joe Burgess being top of that list but that trio working together to help bring the ball back and start sets when your forwards can take a breather and making themselves such hardwork to stop would see me go for that.

With all things being equal who would you back? Tomkins running at Hardaker or Hardaker running at Tomkins?

As a Rhino I'm glad we've got Hardaker and genuinely wouldn't swap him for any other full back in the game.