Pushing the marker is standard practice now - it goes hand in hand with the new habit of moving off the mark by several steps, which has become the norm; in stepping forward, they have to push the marker out of the way to claim their bit of ground. It's cheating, and it's been allowed to continue for so long that it will be difficult reverse.

On the Aiton incident - having watched him at Wakey for a couple of seasons, I was shocked to see him go down like he'd been shot; it was a massive over-reaction and he should be a bit embarrassed about it. But - if Ferres had kept his hand out of his face, it would never have been penalised.

As for Broughy and his continuous gobbing off - someone needs to have a serious word; it's generally an issue in the game, but he's one of the worst offenders. Maybe the gaffer of the players union could have a word - I'm sure he wouldn't brook that kind of dissent from a fellow professional...

Agree with all that.

I look on all the issues (diving at the ptb/dissent/moving off the mark etc) the same as I view diving in football. It can be solved by the refs.
With diving in football it can be eliminated by consistent refereeing. If every time a player who dives is punished, and every time a player who is fouled/impeded but not actually brought down is given as a foul then diving would be eliminated as there'd be no incentive for anyone to dive. The recent dive by Rooney is a good example. He was impeded by the goalkeeper but if he hadn't gone down he wouldn't have got the penalty.

The same is true of dissent in RL (and football as it happens). If players are consistently punished with penalties and yellow cards for dissent they'll stop doing it. By the way by dissent I dont mean a player, especially the captain, just talking to the ref. That is often mistaken by the fans as "mouthing off" when it's not. However the manner in which a player talks to the ref is important and is something that I think the refs are too lenient with. If a player is raising his voice and waving his arms around or taking the mick either by laughing or clapping at the ref then that should be classed as dissent and penalised.

Long time since I've seen a ref March the extra ten...used to be standard practice

The relatively new phenomenon of RL players staggering around like a new born foal when attempting to get up to ptb (now known as 'milking' and something which Ben Thaler in particular yells at players regardless of whether they are being impeded or not) is a direct result of the wrestle tactics that Australian coaches introduced at clubs like Huddersfield and Wigan; and which have now proliferated throughout the whole of SL, like an unchecked arms race. Thanks to that, clubs now employ wrestle coaches, players learn about levers and underhooks, and the modern RL tackle basically involves two blokes holding another bloke up, while a third one barrels in to smash him to the floor - and if another one is nearby, he piles on as well. Then the 'tackled' players tries to get up quickly, while the 3 or 4 muggers/tacklers pretend to be tangled in his legs, each other, or to slip and trip so that it takes as long as possible to clear the 'ruck' while their defensive line gets set. This goes on largely unchecked, and is so blatant that the mugger/tackler on the bottom of the pile will look plaintively at the ref, waiting to be told that he has to get up before attempting to do so.

As a result, the tackled player will attempt to get restitution by exaggerating how much he is being impeded and interfered with by thrashing around at the bottom of the dog-pile, trapping an arm or leg to create the illusion of being held down, or chucking himself on the floor again in the act of getting up - all to persuade the ref to give a penalty. Or he will step off the mark to get out of the way of any muggers still left on the floor. There is rarely such thing as a quick ptb any more - so they play for a penalty; there is no behaviour without function.

Clean up the cheating in the tackle/ruck area, and the concomitant cheating from tackled players will also stop - there'd be no advantage to it any more.

Quote ="bren2k"The relatively new phenomenon of RL players staggering around like a new born foal when attempting to get up to ptb (now known as 'milking' and something which Ben Thaler in particular yells at players regardless of whether they are being impeded or not) is a direct result of the wrestle tactics that Australian coaches introduced at clubs like Huddersfield and Wigan; and which have now proliferated throughout the whole of SL, like an unchecked arms race. Thanks to that, clubs now employ wrestle coaches, players learn about levers and underhooks, and the modern RL tackle basically involves two blokes holding another bloke up, while a third one barrels in to smash him to the floor - and if another one is nearby, he piles on as well. Then the 'tackled' players tries to get up quickly, while the 3 or 4 muggers/tacklers pretend to be tangled in his legs, each other, or to slip and trip so that it takes as long as possible to clear the 'ruck' while their defensive line gets set. This goes on largely unchecked, and is so blatant that the mugger/tackler on the bottom of the pile will look plaintively at the ref, waiting to be told that he has to get up before attempting to do so. As a result, the tackled player will attempt to get restitution by exaggerating how much he is being impeded and interfered with by thrashing around at the bottom of the dog-pile, trapping an arm or leg to create the illusion of being held down, or chucking himself on the floor again in the act of getting up - all to persuade the ref to give a penalty. Or he will step off the mark to get out of the way of any muggers still left on the floor. There is rarely such thing as a quick ptb any more - so they play for a penalty; there is no behaviour without function. Clean up the cheating in the tackle/ruck area, and the concomitant cheating from tackled players will also stop - there'd be no advantage to it any more.'" Couldn't agree more, watching PSG at 'tellins in 1997 and look how quick the tacklers get off without the aid of the ref telling them to 'release' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRum3y2hh00

Quote ="bren2k"The relatively new phenomenon of RL players staggering around like a new born foal when attempting to get up to ptb (now known as 'milking' and something which Ben Thaler in particular yells at players regardless of whether they are being impeded or not) is a direct result of the wrestle tactics that Australian coaches introduced at clubs like Huddersfield and Wigan; and which have now proliferated throughout the whole of SL, like an unchecked arms race. Thanks to that, clubs now employ wrestle coaches, players learn about levers and underhooks, and the modern RL tackle basically involves two blokes holding another bloke up, while a third one barrels in to smash him to the floor - and if another one is nearby, he piles on as well. Then the 'tackled' players tries to get up quickly, while the 3 or 4 muggers/tacklers pretend to be tangled in his legs, each other, or to slip and trip so that it takes as long as possible to clear the 'ruck' while their defensive line gets set. This goes on largely unchecked, and is so blatant that the mugger/tackler on the bottom of the pile will look plaintively at the ref, waiting to be told that he has to get up before attempting to do so. As a result, the tackled player will attempt to get restitution by exaggerating how much he is being impeded and interfered with by thrashing around at the bottom of the dog-pile, trapping an arm or leg to create the illusion of being held down, or chucking himself on the floor again in the act of getting up - all to persuade the ref to give a penalty. Or he will step off the mark to get out of the way of any muggers still left on the floor. There is rarely such thing as a quick ptb any more - so they play for a penalty; there is no behaviour without function. Clean up the cheating in the tackle/ruck area, and the concomitant cheating from tackled players will also stop - there'd be no advantage to it any more.'" Couldn't agree more, watching PSG at 'tellins in 1997 and look how quick the tacklers get off without the aid of the ref telling them to 'release' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRum3y2hh00

Quote ="knockersbumpMKII"Couldn't agree more, watching PSG at 'tellins in 1997 and look how quick the tacklers get off without the aid of the ref telling them to 'release' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRum3y2hh00'" It's something I noticed too when I re-watched the Saints v Leeds Cup semi final from 2003. The tackle was much quicker. Now sometimes this leads people to say the game was a better standard 10/15/20+ years ago, which is just plain wrong. And obviously players are fitter and, crucially, conditioned to play RL now which means they've got the energy to put into turning players on their back etc and the energy for 3-4 men to get into tackles regularly. Back in 03/98/whenever they didn't have that conditioning. But I do think it was better to watch.

Quote ="knockersbumpMKII"Couldn't agree more, watching PSG at 'tellins in 1997 and look how quick the tacklers get off without the aid of the ref telling them to 'release' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRum3y2hh00'" It's something I noticed too when I re-watched the Saints v Leeds Cup semi final from 2003. The tackle was much quicker. Now sometimes this leads people to say the game was a better standard 10/15/20+ years ago, which is just plain wrong. And obviously players are fitter and, crucially, conditioned to play RL now which means they've got the energy to put into turning players on their back etc and the energy for 3-4 men to get into tackles regularly. Back in 03/98/whenever they didn't have that conditioning. But I do think it was better to watch.

The whole ruck area is a farce imo. Laying on, third/4th player flopping after the tackle is completed, turning players on their backs after the tackle is completed, defender pawing at the ball player as he tries to PTB, ball player diving in to defender, ball player staggering forward and pinching yards, ball player pushing defender away etc etc etc. All against the rules I believe and making the game messy and pot luck as regards reffing decisions.

Striking?????????????

How is a push striking?

All very true, and I can't see us ever going back to 'quick, clean' p-t-bs (if they ever existed). But there's one modest step in the right direction that could be taken. Most ruck infringement decisions go in the favour of the team in possession, and I don't think that's right. The ball-carriers walk forward off the mark for a pastime, knowing that if the markers stand their ground, it will usually be the markers who are penalised for 'crowding'. And/or, if the ref doesn't penalise the markers, then the ball-payer will often get away with pushing them. Sam Tomkins used to do this all the time. Refs should be a lot more willing to penalise moving off the mark.

There's a clear advantage to slowing the ruck down. Why Would a defending team allow a quick ptb?

Based on last night: because the opposition would cough the ball up quicker?

not just diving. O'Connor gave bentham a gobful and continued a tirade of abuse. wigan whenever a big decision go against them surround the ref screaming. the only people to stop all this are the refs. get a gobful then yellow card them. every time. it will soon stop

Whatever did happen to marching the players 10 yard/metres for verbals?

One of the best things RL had going for it.

RL is not Mo & Ron Ball's game.

A few years back I used to marvel at the s*** that NRL refs took from the likes of JT, Robbie Farah, Gallen, and would boast on Aussie forums that they wouldn't get away with it in SL, or they'd be carded. But now, we're just as bad.

Has this behaviour coincided with tendency for referees to act all pally with the players these days?!

LMS got a hand in the face last night, no cartwheels from him.

Burns got a cas player in the chops, no dramatics there.

Amor binned - no back chat, just walked.

Good show boys.

Wasn't it Wardle gobbing off at the bent one? Regardless, you're quite right: this one's in the hands of the refs.

Well in the NRL they made it explicit in the rules, didn't they, that only the captain can speak to the ref, and even then only at specified times in the game. Then the ref can say, I can't talk to you now. If you continue to pester me, I will sanction you. Seems to me this is a sensible small measure that we should take too.

I was always under the impression it was the rule here too, though obviously the last couple of seasons has shown that it isn't. Need it passed quick!

Ashton Simms seemed to go down very easily there...

Jon Wilkins is the original "best actor of the year". Remember the time when Keith Senior gave him that love tap and he went down like The Titanic in front of the North Stand. The ref saw straight through him, only gave Keef a yellow while he searched around in his pocket for an Oscar to give to Wilkin. Big Jessy.

possiby. either way gave a penalty against him and tell him to shut it. easy. only the refs can sort this one out though