Any talk of a 2nd or a 3rd string side is just b*ll*x . The Australian team is the Australian team , no excuses no 2nd string. It's the best team in Aus at that point in time. Just like we won't have Sam B playing for us, they will also have players missing. It has always been the case. Inthe past when England had key players missing the usual suspects say 'no strength in depth' when Australia play it's 'a 2nd rate team' - absolute tripe.

Big difference between missing 2-3 names and 19 potential first team members! Of the squad likely to take the field only 4-5 of them are legitimate first choice players. Not that the rest arent good but not world class by any stretch and certainly not close to being equal to players that are missing. If NZ dont win this they want a rocket and a new coach!

Likely Kangaroo team:

1. Inglis
2. Tupou (R)
3. Jennings
4. Walker (R)
5. Johnston (R)
6. Cherry Evans
7. Cronk
8. Scott
9. Smith (C)
10. Woods
11. Hoffman
12. Thaiday
13. Bird
14. Papali
15. Parker
16. Guerra (R)
17. Farrah

(R) = Rookie

One of the weakest Australian packs I have ever seen, very little in the prop forward dept. Such a shame we lost Sam, the english pack would have made mince meat of them.

If it says Australia on the match day ticket then it's Australia lining up on the pitch. They will play hard and be hard to beat.

I don't buy this weakest team in years- the same thing has been said countless times in the last 10 years. Players move on and are replaced by thise with less of a reputation, that's how it's always been.

If you don't buy it then you are a goose. This is the weakest Australian team in 50 years. Matthew Scott is not playing and the only specialist prop in the side is Aaron Woods. The Burgess twins and James Graham with the support of Chris Hill will make mincemeat of the Australian pack.

The Kiwis are without Jared Wharea-Hargreaves and Roger Tuivasa-Sheck, both of whom are key first choice players.

If England cannot win this series then they have no hope in the future of international rugby league.

We have better props and that is it.Australia with that team are still superior in the back row,at hooker in the halves,centres and at full back if inglis plays there.we are also away from home.

We are still big underdogs.

Likely Kangaroo team/Likely England team

1. Inglis/Tomkins
2. Tupou/Hall
3. Jennings/Watkins
4. Walker/Shenton
5. Johnston/Charnley
6. Cherry Evans/Widdop
7. Cronk/Smith
8. Scott/Graham
9. Smith/Clark
10. Woods/Burgess
11. Hoffman/Ferres
12. Thaiday/Tomkins
13. Bird/O'loughlin
14. Papali/Burgess
15. Parker/Hill
16. Guerra/Farrell
17. Farrah/Hodgson

Outside backs-fairly even, I would just favour Aus due to Inglis

Halfbacks/hooker-Aus

Props-England

Back Row-Aus

We're in with a chance but still big underdogs.

I disagree that the outside backs are fairly even - only Hall and Watkins are really anywhere near even, and that's not taking into account Watkins has been in average form this year at best.

Our props are head and shoulders above theirs, but that's it's. Our starting back row will be able to live with theirs for maybe 60 minutes, but they've got massive impact off the bench that we're lacking - I'd guess it will be the same old story where we compete for 60 mins and then they run away with it in the end. That's where Sam Burgess will be sorely missed - he'd have probably done 80 mins in the backrow and would have been the best forward on the park.

I really hope they prove me wrong - I'll be cheering them on all the way and will no doubt feel a lot more optimistic come kick off.

As we've seen in many games, the best team 'on paper' doesn't always win.

Australian teams will always have an advantage over English as they are used to playing high intensity games all season and not just for 4/5 games a year. You can take average players and put them together and make them very hard to beat if they are conditioned i playing high intensity, quick, controlled rugby.


This may change over the next few years as more players are involved in the NRL.

The mighty Sydney Roosters have announced that prop forward Samuel Moa has withdrawn from the New Zealand Four Nations squad "for family reasons."

This is a big blow for the Kiwis. Moa is a powerful presence in attack and defense. Moa's team mate and fellow prop Jared Wharea-Hargreaves had already made himself unavailable. It gives the England front row clear superiority over their Kiwi equivalents.

This 4N tournament ought to be renamed the Coitus Interruptus tournament given the number of withdrawals.

[url=http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/nrl-stars-in-brisbane-for-four-nations-questioned-over-fight-at-hot-gossip-nightclub/story-fnihsrf2-1227095514731?nk=60c1252641c7a043e602103f2599b0cb[uFour Nations tournament kicks off early![/u[/url

The weakest Aus team in 50 years was the one that narrowly won the Ashes in 2003. The backs then (particularly centres - Craig Wing, Mick De Vere, Phil Bailey) were way worse than the current squad. Despite that causing them a massive loss of point-scoring capability, they still won all three tests.

....now now Billy


They were just letting off steam

Maybe this is just me but everyone is so negative about 4 nations, and regardless of the outcome of the tournament people on here will just tear England to shreds over it. If we lose, there will be page after page of "same old garbage" and "Mc Banana Out" and if we win people will just say that we were up against weakened opposition and it's not a real win. And god forbit if we get beat by Samoa, regardless of the fact that whilst they may not be players who would be first choice in either Australia or New Zealand's starting line up, it is still a squad of NRL first teamers with a couple of super league players, players who are used to the intensity of the NRL week and week out, they will be no push overs. But I fear if they do win any games, there won't be very many comments of, "well we may now have a side who can compete with big 3 at long last!" it will just be all doom and gloom and comments about what a sorry state the game is in.

As long as all the games are close and competitive and England put a good effort in, I will be happy. As people have mentioned, there probably isn't a better time than now to come home with the trophy and hopefully a competition win will maybe bring some more interest into the sport and more emphasis on the international scene. Here's hoping anyway.

All 4 squads aren't too far apart from each other and I think it'll be a cracking contest with 7 great games over 4 weekends. I really hope the Kiwis make the final though, because Wellington sports fans aren't renowned for turning up at events at the best of times.

I'm just negative because I don't want to feel let down again. I HOPE they win the tournament. Just like when they beat a weakened Kiwi team over three tests a few years ago, I don't care if their opponents are weaker for whatever reason - you can only beat who you play.

My feeling is we'll lose to both NZ and Australia, but if England genuinely compete in both games for the full 80 minutes that will be a step forward IMO, especially over here.

England team: S Tomkins (New Zealand Warriors); J Charnley (Wigan), K Watkins (Leeds), M Shenton (Castleford), R Hall (Leeds); G Widdop (St George Illawarra), M Smith (Wigan); G Burgess (South Sydney), J Hodgson (Hull KR), J Graham (Canterbury Bulldogs, capt), L Farrell (Wigan), J Tomkins (Wigan), J Westerman (Hull).

Replacements: D Clark (Castleford), B Ferres (Huddersfield), T Burgess (South Sydney), C Hill (Warrington).

Back row looks weak.

Even as a Wigan fan I think Joel is lucky to be in there. I'm really surprised Whitehead hasn't been given the chance to show what he can do. I'm pleased to see Farrell get a chance to start the game. I know people worry about his size but he's a terrific player and will cause any defence some problems.

We desperately need O'Loughlin back for next week though. He's our only genuine world class backrower and we can't afford for him to miss any more games after this week.

Tomkins over Whitehead is shocking from that clown McNamara.

That back row is absolutely shocking, neither Farrell or Tomkins should be anywhere near an England shirt.
Was looking forward to this 4N too.

The omission of Elliot Whitehead is an act of incompetence so grotesque that it leads a reasonable person to suspect a condition of insanity in the mind of the coach.

Everyone's first observation except McNamara!

Samoa's wingers are bigger than our 11-13.

I think Farrell and Westerman deserve to be in that back row from the players available.

Tomkins over Whitehead is a poor decision (having said that I'm not overly sure about Whitehead in defence, but he's clearly had a better season than Tomkins and is very, very good with the ball).