TBH William, after watching them for over forty years, I haven’t got a clue

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Yep, the benefit of finishing first appears to be irrelevant, but right now, if I were a betting man, I wouldn’t like to call who will win the G.F. (With the exception of St's, Catalans & probably Widnes.

A part of me feels like the cosy consortium has finally been broken, then on the other hand, if Cas are in the mix to win the G.F is the quality is diluting?

My money would be on Leeds, especially from 5th or 6th.

The playing standards are absolutely dire. Leeds could do the double for the first in their history yet their playing squad is so ordinary. I've seen far better and far classier Leeds teams in the 80's and 90's who won sweet FA.

Think it's unfair to single out Cas in order to make a valid point about the quality of the SL diluting. I'd prefer to single them all out.

SL is utter pants. There hasn't been a decent SL side since Saints in 2006.

Retro rlfans.com rules OK!

Wire 2011

Not sure how to define 'decent', but there hasn't been a 'great' side for a long time. The salary cap seems designed to specifically prevent us ever having great sides, because apparently great sides are bad for the sport - they win too much.

It might even be preferable, to all fans in general, to have it the way it is today ( very difficult as a Wigan fan to give a 'neutral' perspective ), but at the same time, nobody should expect to ever see a truly great side appear under the current salary cap regime - you'd have to get unbelievably lucky with masses of instantly ready world class youngsters appearing in the same season. Then you'd have to offload most anyway. So even then, you'd be 'great' for one season only, which is probably a contradiction anyway.

Mr Eve was listing decent SL sides, not ones that can't even beat an opponent [ithey[/i have chosen to play against.

Yes, I agree, but we won't get there just by lifting the salary cap. We could engineer the early arrival of a 'great side' by other essential rule changes:

1) Teams must play in their traditional ( i.e.pre-1990s) colours
2) Wage levels, squad sizes and allowed overseas signings will naturally be proportionate to this colour scale
3) Teams who play in all white will have the lowest allocations on this scale
4) Teams who play in red and white hoops will have the highest allocations on this scale
5) Leigh are excluded from the above

This! it was cringeworthy, and as already said, the reason our sport will never be taken seriously.

I liked it. It made for a dramatic moment.

There's simply no incentive to coming top with the current structure. From 98-2001 we had a top 5, the league leaders featured in all 4 GFs, winning 2. From 2002 - 08, we had a top 6, only once did the league leaders not feature in the GF, and it it was won by the league leaders 4 years out of 7. Under the current system, the leage leaders haven't featured in the GF for 3 seasons out of 5.

Coaches have worked out that simply doing enough to ensure reaching the playoffs and peaking at the right time is the way forward. Last season was the nail in the coffin for this structure for me. After watching Wigan lose 7 of their last 9 weekly rounds to then click and win 3 games to be crowned champions, it was obviously great as a Wigan fan, but the resulting apathy to the weekly rounds in 2014 is obvious.

Absolutely right.

Cant wait for next season when we go from Jim Bowen "come and have a look at what you could have won", to Paul Daniels with "every second counts"
What utter B******s.
Our sport is no longer sport, just entertainment for Sky TV and unfortunately this isn't going to change any time soon.

Even the new expanded WCC does reward coming top of the league. GF finalists can come from anywhere. Only 3rd place is guaranteed a place or has there be some kind of annoucement from the RFL that 3rd place means the highest league ranked losing semi-finalist from the play-offs. I suppose that would fit in with finish top and dont make the GF you still get to go.

What are you saying? Firstly, NOBODY, except arguably the long-suffering Mrs. Aardvark, who is unlikely to view it as a prize, has "won" me.

Secondly, is referring to me as "sweet" the equivalent of Hardaker's homophobic kiss-blowing?

I shall write to the RFL immediately.

I define 'decent' sides as 'of an acceptable standard but nowhere near great or class'. There hasn't been any great or class sides during the SL era, just a handful of decent sides... Bradford & Saints circa 2000-2003, Leeds circa 2004-2005, Saints 2006... nothing decent since then... playing standards downhill ever since and particularly so since the franchised 14 team, top 8 play-off SL structure was introduced.

Sadly, I agree with you Re: effects of salary cap. We are stuck with mediocrity and lack of class teams and genuine world class stars for the foreseeable future due to financial issues. Short of an influx of sugar daddies willing to spend big, this is what we are stuck with.

You are not FA and you are definitely not sweet in my book.

You'll always be AA!

Spot on.

Can't argue with any of that analysis.

The only reason I referred to Cas is they are one of your Whipping Boy Rabble gang

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Have they really improved that much over the last twelve months or has the Big Four sunk to their level, probably a bit of both TBH.

I am with William - it could be argued that Leeds have won the GF 5 times in a time when the team has been in decline. Leeds reached a peak just before the infamous Hokey Cokey in Peripignan in 2005!! The team has never been the same again and the standard of play has fallen too. The falling standards and the winning of the GF can only point to one thing - the general falling of standards across the board.

Firstly I take issue with that no Saints fans found it funny. I found it funny.

Secondly saying it makes us look like WWE. Oh please if only we could get the crowds they get paying the money they pay for the pre-scripted dross they serve up for the peanuts they pay to the performers. It's a wonder of modern day pantomine. On a more serious note it's what the punters want. Interactive TV.

As for no incentive to finish top. Saints had the first real insentive in years to finish top. They would be the first team in the UK certain to play in next years WCC. That's money, exposure, all the things players say they want more of from RL. If Saints finish second, they will need to make the GF. Which I think we can all agree is close to zero chance. Or hope Cas make the GF.

Warrington outplayed us. But it was not the lack of halves that did us last night. We did not even get the chance to play one out rugby.

I don't even know why anyone would be surprised that most teams don't give a shiit about finishing top, the game including the clubs bought in to the "One Big Prize" namely the GF from the outset, indeed for a while there wasn't even a hubcap, so at least they were being honest then, in that finishing regular season top was nothing. It was deliberately nothing, as nothing was to detract from Sky's supreme prize. Even the Challenge Cup was sacrificed on that altar.

The thing that has developed is teams have gradually twigged that peaking to finish top and gain some perceived advantage in the playoffs is considerably outweighed by NOT peaking in the regular season but being properly ready for the knock-out stages.

You reap what you sow. The whole regular league is, competitive teams now realise, a long pre-season.

So cruel and yet still quite funny.

Sky get a fair amount of justifiable stick for some of the stuff they have done with out game, but that will be replayed for years.

I can't believe some people still haven't got over the fact that the champions come from a play-off situation.

Firstly It happens in about 90% of sports nowadays apart from European football.

And secondly it's hardly a new thing in English RL in fact over 2/3rds of our history the champions of England has been decided over a play-off history.

The Old Trafford show piece has been invaluable in the preservation of our great sport. And long may it continue.

It'd be great if it comes down to Cas vying for the League Leaders in the south of France live on Sky. I like how finishing top secures a place in the World Club Series too. If that's expanded into a 2 or 3 week tournament (unlikely at this stage, I know) as opposed to just a series of fixtures it would give some real importance to that top spot.

The reason why some of us don't see the playoffs as an equal match to a league system is because a league system due to it's length tests a whole squad and allows for injuries and freak results.

The playoffs by being knock out in nature are subject the vageries of chance far more than a league covering 6-8 months.

If a team loses 2 or 3 key play makers before a playoff game down to the random chance of say a virus or food poisioning. Does that automatically make them a poorer team than those who finished say 8th, but just manage to have a full compliment of players and a bit of luck of the green. No it does not.

I agree the playoffs have been a success and I agree that all the club agree that the champions crowned are the winners of the GF. But when you talk about who is the best club in SL. I don't think the GF is a fair reflection of this.

Just as say if Usain Bolt was struck down with injury before the Olympics or World Championships it does not mean the winner of the 100m's is the fastest runner in the world.

Knockout is great for entertainment but a poor measure of ability.
Just as I'm sure most people on here would not accept a knockout principle when being assessed at their jobs. Being the best at your job for the whole year, only to be marked as a poor performer that year because on the day everyone gets assessed you happened to have the flu.

What I'd do is perform half heartedly most of the year then put all my effort into peaking for the assesment.



No one ever really kicked off about it when we had a different playoff format and the winner was pretty much always 1st and 2nd because it basically struck the best of both worlds because the structure was far harder to come from lower down which was punishment for not being consistent enough.

The grand final is fine and here to stay, what needs to change (for the billionth time and every rl fan knows) is the playoff format.