That's something I've thought about before too. I think some is down to the refereeing often favouring the dominant team too much at times, but you're right it the momentum is harder to turn than in other sports.
Would bringing competitive scrums back help?

But the base of the game has shrunk in the North. The game is in worse shape. We are less competitive than even in 1980 at international level. So a few bankrupt clubs are getting bigger crowds and alot more bankrupt clubs are now disenfranchised and with them the future support of the game. It's an unholy mess.

The Challenge Cup Final has been well attended but you're right the regular rounds and internationals have been poor. I attribute much of the poor International crowds to a lack of success, a poor and irregular international schedule, poor RFL management and short-minded clubs not helping.
The Challenge Cup, it's difficult to compare attendances since much depends on how many rounds you include. If the attendances on RL Project are correct they show that in 94/95 the average attendance was 5,871, in 2012 it was 6,488.
I think you're right that the Challenge Cup has declined in importance relative to the League and some of the crowds we see are poor, but then I think part of that is due to an increase in season ticket holders at clubs. Meaning more people are used to going to games without having to, or think about, paying. It's already paid for so they're going to go. An extra £20 for a Cup game makes people think. We see the same problem with playoff attendances. Also with the professional game (ie Division 1) drawing away in terms of playing ability from the semi-pro game (Division 2) it means there are far fewer chances of an upset.

Go back to the Sin Bin Dally, your Daily Mail wailings have no place here.

I'm unsure how the game is in worse shape or less popular despite getting bigger crowds. I think you're drastically overestimating the popularity of the game in days gone by. Lets not forget why SL was needed in the first place, because the clubs were bankrupt.

Then they were bankrupt with grounds to sell. Now they are bankrupt with no tangible assets. A huge difference.

Blow outs happen. People don't want to pay more than their season ticket for whatever reason.

What does that have to do with popularity?
The average crowd nearly doubled from pre-SL. I'm not sure how that is evidence of a decline in popularity from that era.
How many clubs were making profits back then? Or breaking even? Showing that they had to sell the family silver back in the "good old days" is not great evidence to show they were in better shape.

You're right, it's dreadful. Clearly, any side getting beaten by 70-0 in the challenge cup is just a joke, The game is on its knees. London are doomed, and we should all wear tinfoil on our heads.

Oh, hang on, what's that score in my banner ?

Unfortunately fans don't usually get to know what happens behind closed doors, as you know, but it must be hard for those forwards to put their bodies on the line, and maybe also they're overrated, I know Manly fans don't rate Bryant at all. And of course there isn't much pressure on them to put their bodies on the line, either from fans or the media.

Good point.
Lets get real Wigan have scored 130 points & conceded 20 at Craven park this season & we are 6th in the table are we to be chucked out of the league as well?

That sums up the state of the game. A sport is not a sport unless it is competitive. We don't have enough British players of sufficient quality to make up 2 full teams of 13 let alone 14 or more.

No, the quality is at two or three clubs because they can pay them or they are there glory hunting, no one seems to mind that the premier league is a two horse race that it took 70 years for a Brit male to win at tennis, that untill recent years you could get all the succsessfull Brit golfers in a telephone box at the same time.
My thought's for what they are worth is that we have tinkered with the rules of the sport in the name of progress but in the prosses to speed up play have taken out nearly all competition for the ball a copy book tackle is not rewarded as the tackled player can't be held down (is not penalised for diving to the ground which is a voulantry tackle! but he can move off the mark not play it correctly with impunity) players are happy to let the ball out of play as they know there is no chance of loosing it a scrum or they will just be allowed to tap it & go. It also results in teams being able to get totaly on top & blow teams off the park as happened yesterday.

I agree that the rules are a big problem. They limit the number of people who can play the game at a good level and as you say lend themselves to one-sidedness.

I started the embarrassing thread, but that was me being critical of the fact that a so called proffesional club put in such little effort in such an important game.

This thread is a huge knee jerk. I've said it before, the game is bigger today than it ever has been, in crowds and in the media. I listen to talk sport quite often, a few years ago there was hardly any mention of Rugby League on there. Now, whilst still a football dominated station, they have previews of all the games, comprehensive result round ups, guests from time to time, and several of the presenters talk very highly about the sport. The same can be said of Sky Sports News too.

People are interested in the game, and I think going back to P&R will help appeal to a new audience further, but now we just need to sit back for a while and let the game grow organically rather than rush it through. Instead the powers that be need to be channelling their efforts into spreading the word further. With a bit of luck the economy will start to come back over the next couple of years and make sponsorship easier, and we can negotiate a better tv deal too. Those are the things we need to grow the game now.

Jesus! He's escaped. I take it no one was responding to the merchant of doom on the Sin Bin then?

Money is tight at the moment and being a Wigan fan and ST holder, with a 99.9% chance that my team will be going to Wembley after getting a cricket score, I chose to stay at home and watch it on the box and put the money I would have spent going to the semi towards a cup final ticket.

I have gone to other cup ties where the opposition seemed a more credible challenge but this was always going to be a walkover.

Money is tight at the moment and being a Wigan fan and ST holder, with a 99.9% chance that my team will be going to Wembley after getting a cricket score, I chose to stay at home and watch it on the box and put the money I would have spent going to the semi towards a cup final ticket.

I have gone to other cup ties where the opposition seemed a more credible challenge but this was always going to be a walkover.

The game needs to have a national identity like Team GB at the Olympics and the British Lions.
In that way people will attach themselves to the sport more. Resurrect the GB v Oz games. It will take time to get close to them but we won't do it by not playing the games.
Ok, in the "old days" we did have imports but we weren't swamped with them like now - we have to be more selective and take risks with home grown players. Fans like to see "locals" make the grade giving them a feeling of belonging. Support your local sheriff!!!

I agree with the last two sentences. One way or another it will, but one prerequisite for that happening is a governing body with half a clue between them. Most of us would quite like to see us rise from the quagmire sooner rather than later.

The fear is that after constant tinkering Union might get its laws right and produce an entertining product backed by the sponsors and tv money.

Its unlikely though to be fair though. So we have the best sporting contest to work with and we need to maximise that.

Thrashings happen in this sport, even in the NRL teams get nilled and concede 40+. We're having a bad(ish) year after years of attendance increases but they are still way up on where they were pre-SL. At top club level at least.

The real reason we're having problems is lack of available money from sponsors/banks. Partly recession and partly due to the RFLs failings.

It's a shame we aren't going to hold our nerve a bit, maybe get some new management in at the RFL. But it looks like loads of massive knee jerk reactions are going to happen and the game's going to become a very complicated mess in a year's time.

Define competitive.

England thrashing the Aussies at cricket this year means cricket isn't a sport?

The top 4/5 of the Premier League means that football isn't a sport - how many teams can realistically win the premier league? Scottish football isn't a sport (

) and Spanish football is about as far away as you can get from competitive and therefore sport.

IMO it is when there can be some reasonable doubt as to the result.

Me vs Usain Bolt over 100m, isn't really a race in any meaningful sense.

Blow-outs happen in sport, it is when you know in advance that it becomes a big problem.

It is true to say that we know with something approaching absolute certainty that Manchester Utd will finish above Hull City in the PL this season. Over 90 minutes in either of the games between the 2, Hull City could get some sort of result, possibly, maybe.

One 'problem' is that it is rare for a team to nick a lucky result against the run of play in RL. If one team is much better and performs somewhere close to their best, they almost invariably win. Football actually gets away with a much greater disparity between clubs, because 'you never know', whereas in RL you kind of would.

3. Though probably 2.