Even if you think he had a poor game, I don't think you can throw "goes missing in big games" at Sinfield. To be honest its thrown at a lot of players unfairly. Everyone has bad games, sometimes in big ones, sometimes in small ones. More people notice, because more people watch big games of course, and they're usually 'big' because the opponents are good meaning less chance to have a stand out performance. Tomkins gets this kind of stuff, but there's no real evidence of going missing in big games vs small games, and even if there were he's young enough for it to be 'small sample error'. Not so Sinfield, but I would say there's no evidence at all that he's any less likely to perform in a big game.

There's a seperate debate to be had about England halves, etc., but if Sinfield is picked on the basis of what you think he can do on a good day, I see no more risk that he'll fall short of that, than any player. Less risk than most actually.

The Halves for Leeds did not do enough or have the impact that they should have on a game.
I barely heard Danny McGuire's name mentioned did he touch the Ball?

Leeds fans are delusional to think Kevin Sinfield qualifies as a good player, hell some school boys are better.

To be honest I wouldn't be looking at Sinfield as the cause of the defeat, the pack was beaten, the game had a similar feeling to the England-Australia final at the 4 Nations. Beaten pack, no room for the half backs to do anything.

The Leeds players that looked good were Hall, Moon and Watkins. If they had BJB & Hardaker I think it would have made all the difference, Melbourne made loads of easy yards down the Leeds right.

Leeds missed a couple of opportunities with dropped balls, they were also gifted a try that had a blatant forward pass in the build up and the Storm appeared to have a perfectly good try chalked off for a forward pass.
It was probably a fair result with the Storm playing at a different level for the first 10 minutes of each half.

We all know Sinfield getting the golden boot is a farce but i would not blame him for leeds not winning the game

Pathetic thread really, Sinfiels was totally marked out of the game (illegally at one point) so didn't have his best game. So those calling for Sinfield to be dropped as England stand off on the basis of this game I presume want Widdop there? And he was far worse than Sinforld last night.

Best team won no complaints. I thought it was a great game, Melbourne were nowhere near their best but on the flip side neither were Leeds, for example how many times do you see burrow drop the ball with the the line begging like last night

I did not think Sinfield was marked out the game at all.
Where was his tactical kicking game, pretty hard to mark that out of a game.
He was not why Leeds lost at all, he did not do much to make them win either.

The slightly late push in the back was nothing compared to the knees in the head on the Storm centre that knocked him senseless.

The reffing was pretty much a joke all night.

I think the problem with Sinfield at international level in coming years could be what happened last night.

He is a great kicker, but marked properly by a fit side and you get a non-kicking Sinfield, which is a greatly diluted product. His kicking is what makes him a good player in my eyes, but like tonight showed if he is controlled he fades into the background.

Also To the poster who singled out McGuire, he didn't look 100% fit to me but to say he had no impact is wrong, for a start he created halls try with a fantastic cut out pass, he also created a few breaks with similar passes throuout the game

Of course you can mark a kicker out of the game.

Watkins knees to the head was totally accidental the shoulder to Sinfields back was late and intentional the two incidents are in no way comparable

Agree. And that's a side to his game that has really come on in the last couple of years.

If a kicker stands deep enough off the play the ball how do you mark him out of getting his kick away?
Sinfield was not marked out last night at all, players that get targeted get run at in attack and moved up on fast in defence, that did not happen.
It was not a shoulder in Sinfields back it was a push, I will post the stills if it bothers you that much, even the biased commentary said as much.

Knees to the head accidental or not should have been looked at again, it barely got a mention.
If it had been Slater on Hall it would have been a massive issue.

[iChristopher wrote
Also To the poster who singled out McGuire, he didn't look 100% fit to me but to say he had no impact is wrong, for a start he created halls try with a fantastic cut out pass, he also created a few breaks with similar passes throuout the game[/i

That must be me.
If he is not fit enough to compete he should have told the medical staff and not taken the field, that is a massive cop out.
A player that is not able to compete is letting his team mates down, don't Leeds have players to cover injuries?
A couple of cut out passes are not that big a contribution are they? some players throw a dozen a game, some lead to something many do not.
What did he do himself running the ball taking the defensive line to unlock the Storms structure?

Well besides a insults aimed at my direction, I've just had excuses like the " pack was beaten, he was put u der pressure" so what! What do you think is going to happen on the WC. We will be playing against world class players who will be in your face giving you no time on the ball. Sinfield has to rise to it, the reason I singled him out is because we've seen him do this before against an Aussie side. He is our captain and he is meant to lead the team and take on the opposition like Peacock did. Just concerning that I can see the exact same thing happening come WC. I started this thread as an England fan questioning whether our captain was good enough in a big game. The answer was no.

By the way Widdop didnt't cover himself in glory either, but he's not nailed on for the 6 shirt or going to be our captain.

Widdop can do better though, many say he looks good because who he has around him, I think in some ways that is the problem, he defers to some of the best in their positions in the World, he should change Clubs when his contract expires and establish himself on his own ability.

The shoulder/ push to Sinfield doesn't bother me at all pal, I didn't bring it up. It was a penalty and that was it.

The knee was totally accidental Watkins could do nothing about it in fact if you watch it he looked to be jumping out of the way as the storm player dived to get the ball.

As for the posters rant on unfit players letting the team mates down I said he didn't look 100% fit to me, I have no idea if this is the case.

Look Leeds were beaten by a better side but not by much it was a great game and is a joy to see the best players in the world playing live.

I thought you meant this.
[iPathetic thread really, Sinfiels was totally marked out of the game (illegally at one point) [/i he got a late push not a swinging arm to the Jaw.

Was he taken out illegally twice?

I hear what you are saying, my reply is if you are not fit enough to compete you should not take the field as you are letting your Team and Fans down, If you are fit then you get judged on your performance, its that simple.
If you take the field fit and take a knock and have to stay on as there are no replacements on the bench for your position that is something totally different.

It was a good game at times, it could have easily been by 12 points more if some of the controversial forward pass decisions had not gone Leeds way.

Ok fair enough I did mention it and it was illegal as it was a penalty (not making an issue if it!), I was using it as an example if Sinfield being a marked man.

It shows what a good player he is, that after one poor performance there is a 5 page thread dedicated to snipers discussing it.

I actually agree with you on players not being fit where I disagree is that you said McGuire had no impact when he clearly did

Ok

Jealous are we, be a while before we are using Bradford Bulls and WCC in the same sentence so I wouldn't worry too much.

And what do you think will happen if we play someone else at 6 in the WC and they're playing behind a beaten pack and been giving no time on the ball? Do you honestly think they'll somehow raise above that?

The problem last night (and for England looking at how they'll probably line up) is other players kicking. Last night it was always 'give it to Sinfield on the last' and Melbourne always went after him. Their was no need to always go to Sinfield for the kick as Burrow (a great 40/20 in the GF) and McGuire can also kick well at times but we didn't put any doubt in the minds of the Storm about who would recieve it on the 5th. Like I mentioned above England will probably have the same worry because of just leaving all kicking duties to Sinfield. If you know one player is going to end up with the ball 90% of the time on the 5th it makes things a lot easier to read.

Are you one of them?