It was a slog to watch, but the France Wales games was far far worse. Strangely I was really impressed with the England game the week before. They had second row forwards running, dodging tackles and passing the ball - something I've never seen in Union before.

Why is defending so poor in union?
There doesn't seem to be any ability to tackle man on man.

I'd have to disagree with that. The better RU players I've played with and against have all been excellent 'textbook' tacklers - as in, shoulder into the waist, head to the side, etc. What they struggle with is the technicalities of defence, as in lateral movement and the discipline of maintaining an unbroken line and, in terms of RL, the intricacies and techniques of the 2/3-man tackle when the attacker doesn't seek to find the ground like in RU.

As for what others have said about the 6 Nations and RU in general, there's nothing to argue with. The RU game is generally pretty poor while RL offers much more. However, RL doesn't have an international 'event' of the same calibre. The Ashes used to be our big event and some bright spark chose to dispose with it. That said, we are not RU and shouldn't try and compete like-for-like.

I've always thought RU is so popular partly because it's relatively easy to play - the same reason football is hugely popular. As Offside Monkey said, RU clubs more often than not have up to 4/5 teams consisting of players well into their 40/50s. My local RU clubs are exactly the same, with others who come down solely for the social scene. RL is simply too tough to accommodate people past a certain age at full contact, and too aggressive for others. I also look at the 'gentlemanly' atmosphere of RU clubs, crowds and players and compare it to the raw aggression and often abuse in much of amateur RL and it's no surprise we don't attract the masses.

Masters and Touch RL game is doing something to address the issue of veteran players but it's pretty small scale and for older players who want lower intensity and impact, but still a full contact game, RU is currently the answer.

The RFL have introduced initiatives in recent years to incentivise amateur clubs to go to international games and we've used many of them. But those games still only see around 20-25k and we're still a long way from the 55,000 crowds we used to see at the Ashes. Has that ship sailed? I hope not.

There's also the issue already raised of closeness and unpredictability in results. If England's backs faced Australia or the All Blacks at league they'd get smashed out of sight. However, the nature of Union means that you can keep the ball tight and rely on kicking and set-pieces to squeeze the life out of a 'better' (in RL terms) team. Australia in RU are the opposite of England in that regard - their forwards are generally not so good, so they have to make up for it with back play. The undeniable fact is that teams with very different strengths and weaknesses can genuinely compete against each other.

In RL OTOH there is no chance to eliminate the opposition's strengths. Would anyone here genuinely complain if England were able to play some sort of 'up the jumper' RL style that nullified Thurston et al to the point we'd have every chance of beating them every time we played? That option simply doesn't exist in RL. The only way England can even hold the Aussies on a regular basis is to be almost as good as them.

Making RL internationals an 'event' will help with crowds (and we certainly should copy the way the RU worlds cup lauds 'brave minnows' who lose by 100 points) but the only real long-term solution is for England to be regularly competitive with Australia.

Another thing is that these brave minnows in rugby do tend to get a damn sight closer than in league because of the difference in rules. Because Japan can stay within a Tier 1 nation, thanks in part to the extra points for penalties, people falsely believe that the international competition must be miles ahead in rugby compared to league, but it's not that, it's just different rules, different scoreboards.

We were commenting in another thread just how unflattering a game league is on the scoreboards when you get two teams who are a class apart. It's an even bigger issue for international credibility if you ask me than it is for the Super League.

In rugby tier 3 nations can keep a tier 1 nation honest as you say BrisbaneRhino. Impossible in league. Even England and NZ, who are top tier nations, struggle to keep scorelines close with Australia a lot of the time.

It's a huge problem for the credibility of internationals but nothing can be done about it, not without changing the rules and diminishing the game on the pitch

I've always been an RL fan, however over the past few months i have been taking an interest and studying RU. The two sports are totally different and it's not really fair to say this or that is boring just because there were no tries. It seems to me that Union has a more varied range of skills required from the different players on the pitch. RL is very samey and repetative in comparison. Just because a game may give you ten tries does that mean it is a more interesting or exciting game to watch than a game with for example three tries?
Also going back to a point raised earlier by someone else, the general atmosphere and air of friendliness at my local RU club is much more pleasant than the aggressiveness between rival supporters which now seems to be the norm in RL.

The two sports are different and both have pros and cons. A major difference is rugby union as an international game. It's frustrating but the biggest game in rugby league is the state of origin and not an international match.

Entirely a matter of opinion.

I find Union far, far more repetitive and samey than league. Kick, set piece that ends up with pile of bodies on the floor, ref blows his whistle, kick.... and so it continues zzzzzzzzz

League is much faster paced, there are massive collisions in the tackle, tactical kick every set. A big part of it for me is the knowing that if a mistake is made, it is a massive deal, so players have to be skilful, physical and get it right 80 - 90% of the time.

And I'm not one of these "I love RL so I must hate RU" types, but I genuinely struggle to sit through a Union game.

I`d much rather visit B&Q and I think that`ll be far popular.

It wouldn't be a RU match report if unionites weren't blaming the weather and parroting that hilarious 'well it's usually more attacking and entertaining' fallacy.

I agree that RU clubs are (in my experience) more welcoming. I played at amateur level at both, and the outright thuggery in some amateur RL games was embarrassing at times. I saw a lot of really cheap shots in amateur RL (some in RU too, but less). You meet plenty genuinely hard people, and a small number who think a punch from behind is hard. No more or less idiots than any other sport - its just that it seemed to be tolerated as part of the game more in RL. Granted, I last played 15 years ago, and I'm told things are better now. Personally I wouldn't send my son to any of the RL clubs I played at, if they were the same today (to be fair, these are low-level sides - I'm sure it was never so bad at bigger amateur clubs) but I wouldn't have any hesitation (well, not from a violence point of view anyway) in sending him to an RU club.

As I say, I'm talking 15 years ago, hope its all improved since.

Whilst there is the disparity between earnings for playing the other code it will continue , unless they want a tan first then they'll head to the NRL ( if they're really good ) .
Personally I wouldn't mind my Club Signing Danny Cipriani ..

I'll tell you another thing, you watch the international RU next weekend and, during one of the many stoppages, they'll be showing line outs being caught in a sexy slo mo using some sort of hi def camera.

I'm watching SL Fulltime the other night and Joel Monaghan finishes with and athletic dive into the corner and the shot from the camera on the dead ball line is all blurred.

Whatever your trade - you've got to make the most of what you've got.

This drivel leaves me in despair

Why? He made some good points.

I watched the most exciting game of rugby played at Twickenham last night that i had recorded on SKY+.
I was on Top Gear.....

Union has more aspects to their game than League does due to having line outs, free kicks and of course many more scrums and penalties.
What does it for me is that there will be 80 infringements in the Union game's 80 minutes giving around ball in play time of 25 mins per match.
League has massively less giving around 55-65 mins of ball in play time.
League can seem more repetative as there is far more rugby to see.
Before Union can be attractive to watch as far as I'm concerned they have to reduce their stoppages by half, this means changing the rules drastically.
Each game of Union I see has the ref blowing for an infringement with less than one minute on the clock. That is not entertaining as far as I'm concerned.
However, most Union fans enjoy their game, they like line outs scrums etc and the more the merrier. It is a good day out and the Internationals are all events. The quality of play is of no consequence to them whatsoever.

Well simple folk like simple things. Lets leave them to it, they're happy.

Indeed.....happy and laughing all the way to the bank.....let's all larf at the 6-12 game and hope nobody notices the failings of our game

The friendliness of RU clubs is entirely subjective as well. I've been to clubs where the people were brilliant, others (including one I played for briefly) who were cliquey and hostile to anyone they'd not played with before, especially relative newcomers to the game.

And one occasion where the spectators fought the players.

League is by far and away the more entertaining despite the belief of union fans that it's too stop-start. I'm not sure how the ball sitting on the floor why the scrum half decides whether to kick or not is seen as in-play or indeed the number of scrums and scrum resets but there you go. I've also never understood how turning the ball over after 5 tackles is seen as tame when most union sides just kick it ad nauseum until they eventually end up with the ball inside the opponents half and even then most of them just try to win a penalty.

I know most people on here will detest Sam Tomkins unless they're a Wigan fan, but we can't allow him to leave this sport. Kyle Eastmond was tipped as the future halfback partner for Tomkins at International level but instead he's stood on the wing for Bath. That's right, the wing.

I put the popularity of union down to education. People are brought up in most schools playing either football or rugby union. Most universities play union. It's just drilled into them that union is the only form of rugby and they lap it up.

Maybe in rugby league we should think about a marketing campaign that shows the many differences in the sports entertainment wise?

To be fair, at university level the SRL has expanded massively in the last few years, and there is now pretty much a blanket coverage of RL at unis. This year the uni of Gloucestershire won the national premier league, with St Mary's in London also in the top division of 6 teams. Below that the SRL has had to expand from a Premier North and South, to North, South, and Midlands because of the new teams and rising standards. Gloucs has 3 sides, Oxford Uni AND Oxford Brookes Uni both have 2 sides each, etc etc. Long may it continue!

Didn't realise that. Fair play to them.

I am a rugby union player and was from my schoold days, however, when I went to uni at liverpool, I joined the rugby league squad (because I wanted to try my hand at the sport i watched).
The squad was made up half of lads from traditional rugby league back grounds, and half of rugby union players who didn't like the union squad because it was full of rahs who wanted you to wear your underpants on your head while they spank you on nights out.
After I left uni, I went back to playing for my home town union club.

Who ever said our game was perfect? Certainly not on here. I'd far rather have the product on the pitch that we have if it's a choice between that or 80000 in the stands for an international, but then I like substance over 'style'. Credit though to the union marketing men past and present as their product, on the whole, is truly awful.