So ' expand the game ' , fair enough, Hemel,Oxford, Gloucester Uni all in one hit ( a big mistake IMO , but we'll see ) along with SW Skorpions, Skolars and Gateshead, it will be interesting to see how these clubs progress, got to say I'm glad I'm not a Gateshead player, they're going be spending a lot of time on the team bus, for not much money

Once again, how? , how do you get middle class midd country/southerners to watch/play RL?

GF, do you want to tell them or me?

The answer starts with the letter M, and ends 8 letters later with a G

Clubs need to do it, and the RFL need to do it

Sorry WQ, you seem to have been going a bit heavy on the wine gums.

Although we are labelled as a northern working class sport and this does not fit everyones ideal, the "northern" roots of the game are something that we should be proud of.
It was a group of northern clubs who had the guts to stand up to the wealthy southern folk that created the game of RL and although the media, in general, together with the establishment (in England & France) are heavily biased against our game (for a number of different reasons), we should indeed be proud of the games heritage and roots.
As I am sure you are aware, RL was banned in France and was stripped of all of its assets and without doubt has been belittled at every opportunity by the British Press and media who are comfortably in bed with the Union boys (old school tie's and all that)

It has been said on this thread already, but expansion should be properley founded and spread from the M62 south and if possible, more work should be done in Cumbria, where with some desire and marketing, there could be a SL club.

Good for you, a person with principles.....but don't whine about being ignored and/or ridiculed by the british media if you want to cling on to your "northern heritage" like some form of comfort blanket.


Excellent.......100+ years later and you're still banging the "it's not fair" drum....one of the reasons TGG has stagnated is the constant complaining about things not being fair...
...terrible thing that happened 60+ years ago and should never be forgotten,but hardly the cause of the current state of professional RL in the UK.




Boo flippin hoo.....are you seriously saying that RL is on its in the UK because the media don't cover the game? FFS......if RL fans got off their booty's and actually attended games, then the media would have no choice.......but as with everything RL, it's ALWAYS SOMEONE ELSES FAULT




I have news for you......there already was a cumbrian SL team, there is little desire for another one given the size of the area and how spread out the towns are and the RFL/RL in the UK have very little idea of how to market themselves to their existing fans, let alone potential new ones.

You suggest a cumbrian SL team whilst the one from Salford teeters on the edge and one of the bigger clubs in Bradford just got itself out of jail with a large dose of assistance from the governing body...



I reckon you've been at the wine gums as well pal.

Nothing you can suggest will instantly turn RL into a media sensation with sell out crowds overnight, neither would having a stadium of the type I suggest. Tell me, how much do the Scottish RU earn from Murrayfield?

Do Twickers, Murrayfield or The Millenium Stadium hold games every week?

They should keep odsal and develop into a 50k stadium. Bulls can rent it and the GF, cc semis, and internationals (min 3) every year played there. I'm sure fans on other side of Pennines will play up but tough, RL needs a home and a way of earning income. Say 250k in rent+ 2mill GF sales + 500k semis + 500k Int's + other fees for renting it out for concerts etc. should be able to to bring in around 5mill a year. Not sure where they get the 70mill to build it though?

Those 3 Internationals, against who exactly?

Australia, Fiji, png, NZ, France, tonga, Samoa, exiles, maori, aboriginal all stars, take your pick!

4 games in 2012, England and France in the 6 nations and the AB's and Saffas in the Autumn....260,381 in attendance....let's call it 30 quid average so just short of 8 million I'd say.....not bad for the sickest Union in the home nations.
Pie in the sky plans for a national stadium will do nothing to "promote" the game across the nation.........better to fill Elland Road for England v Wales or England v France before wasting millions on a white elephant. Jesus, even the KC didn't sell out for the England v Kiwis game in 2011 and you want to build a 50k seater stadium





Twickenham took over 20,000,000 in gate receipts from the 4 games this autumn...that's more money than the RFL receive from SKY each year....then add in the 2 x 6 nations games from this year in TW2 and you have another 11.3 million, then the Aviva final, double headers, Middlesex sevens, IRB London Sevens.....

People, for whatever reason, will associate themselves with the UNION Red Rose of England.....inspirational results like the win over the AB's only enhance the standing of the game across the nation.....Rugby League on the other hand is "that other egg chasing game" played up north.....the stereotype is near impossible to shake off. Union is Middle to Upper class.....and aspirational brits all want to be anything but working class.....just look at the size of the average households debts.

Urban myth or often used excuse, the Media's lack of attention to RL in the UK is not the reason the game is as it is now. Neither is it a lack of a stadium to "call our own", nor the dastardly deeds of the Vichy regime in France 60+ years ago......nor the behaviour of some imaginary old school tie network neither. For over 100 years, Rugby League has been a professional code of Rugby, yet in 17 short years, the other lot have not just overtaken but lapped on numerous occasions.....all the while with the cries of "foul" from your average RL fan...boo hoo...it's not fair



Professional Sport is about putting on an EVENT and creating a demand for more of the same.......Rugby League marketing, such as it is, consists of sticking up posts and expecting people to roll up.........Look at what the Bulls achieved when the put some effort into marketing their games as EVENTS........people wanted to go to Oddslum.......then looked at what happened to them when the stopped trying.....they dropped their pants on pricing in the hope of a quick fix....and we all know how that panned out.

RL is a fantastic product, but even down here in the Southern Hemisphere, they have to market the off it to keep it growing....this year there are 3 minute NRL adverts showing across the region, paid for by the NRL, attracting members.

Rather than build stadiums that you'll never fill, why not get the overpaid idiot from Man City that the RFL trumpeted as a guru to earn his crust and get attendances up across the board, but specifically at Play-off games and Challenge Cup games....because patently, just sticking up posts isn't working for them.

Rubbish, you can't tell me that major national media coverage wouldn't make a difference to how popular RL could become. I remember the early 90's when American football, on the back of fta tv coverage, hype and decent media Covg sold out Wembley on numerous occasions. Union gets a free go due to the old school network and its influence on the southern biased media. And if you don't think the French game was long term, and possibly permenantly, damaged by what the nazi union collaborators did then more fool you. We need to find a way to become class neutral as soccer is. I do agree with you marketing and image are key, the launch of SL back in the 90's with its beefcake national billboards and star players on the media was the only glimpse of what RL could be I can remember.

All those stadiums get on average 7 highly attended rugby union internationals each year. Whilst the Scots may be struggling, they still get crowds RL would kill for and Twickers gets generally in excess of 80,000 for each game. Plus an 80,000 Premiership Final, an 80k double header, plus numerous other events like the 7's comps. Not to mention all the other events they stage.

What would this RL stadium get to show? If we move the GF to this 50k stadium we lost 10-20k of paying fans plus the tradition that's built up. If we move the Cup Final we lose 30k of paying fans plus the tradition plus our only significant, high profile presence in London.
That's 2 games per year, at the moment the international schedule would give us 3 games every 2 years. None of which would fill the stadium.

So that's 5 games on a good year. A total crowd of around 230,000 and that's being generous. On a bad year (ie no 4 Nations) it's 2 games with a crowd of 145,000.

Twickers gets 700k every year, plus the extras.

American football spent a lot of money....and averaged 40,483 in 1991...fast forward 6 years and that had dropped to 5,944....Channel 4 was showing Gridiron from the USA....the version people saw at Wembley, then White Hart Lane and eventially Crystal Palace Athletics stadium was not what was on FTA by any stretch of the imagination.

The BBC show the 6 Nations on FTA because it is part of the so called crown jewels....as is the Challenge Cup......I believe the BBC published figures that showed an average of 4.5 million people watched their coverage of the 6 nations games......1.25 million watched the CC Final......supply and demand at work there RB.......no school tie and no old boys network.
The Southern based media print what people want to read...but you carry on with the "it's not fair" rant...it's why RL is such a marginalised sport in the UK. As for France.....I said it was a terrible thing, but it is not the reason that RL in the UK is on its .

The Day people stop worrying about the past and concentrate on the future is the Day RL in the NH can kick on and grow.....not burdened with past stereotypes,chips on shoulders or concern what "the other lot" are up to.....I said it a few years back and I'll repeat it now, the RLIF/RFL could do alot worse than learn from the IRB/RFU....

2011 4 nations tournament attracted 128,000 fans to 7 matches and you want to build a 50,000 seater stadium to acommodate the 18,300 average

Even the final didn't sell out.. your pipe-dream stadium would have only been 75% full



Rugby League in England does not need to waste money on a national stadium.....it needs to concentrate on filling the smaller grounds it currently uses.

Where would this national stadium be built anyway? Castleford? Halifax? Couldn't think of a quicker way to sink the game than doing something like that.

I have always been an RL fan but recently went to watch a Championship XV versus Maoris All Blacks game at Doncaster (a town with hardly any rugby heritage). The game attracted a crowd of around 5k and was a very well organised and enjoyable event at a cost of only £5. I have since been back to watch Donny RU and have to say the facilities, catering and most of all the PEOPLE were very good. Ok the product on the pitch was not to my uneducated eye as exciting to watch as RL, however the total absence of effing and blinding on the terrace and general yobbish behaviour which seems to be every where you go within rugby league nowadays is seriously making me reconsider where my future as a rugby spectator lies.

Are you related to Smokey ?
It seems like you've copied his post disection tactics.
You choose to take comments out of context so that you can put people down obviously we should all

to your superiority


Our game does have problems within the media but YOU dont wish to accept this


The game DOES neeed to expand and it makes more sense to do so in places like Cumbria, rather than another Paris style debacle
And yes, there needs to be significantly better marketing of the game in all areas from CC to SL and with the international game and as far supporting the game in person, where were you on boxing day, did you manage to get to a game ?

Acceptance of real facts versus wishful thinking would be a good start. Expand total crowd size by first giving the 'low hanging fruit' ( all people in traditional RL areas ) the chance to watch a team that is either in the top flight, or with the fans loyal support could get promoted into it.

To contradict my own opening sentence with a bit of dreaming ( but not total insanity I might add...) a proper 'Champions League' for the top four versus Aus top four with games spread throughout season like the actual Champions League, or Union's Heineken Cup would be a huge shot in the arm, and can be done with a system where you only need make one trip overseas to play your two overseas group games. Brilliant for us, but could the Aussies be bothered? As we stand, probably not.

Regardless, one thing League has to realise is that sustained interest is the key, not one off flashes of interest. Without interesting stuff to write or broadcast all year round, media outlets don't retain staff with an interest in the sport: frankly, Magic Weekend, fun though it is, just isn't that important. Leeds' victories in the last two years, fully deserved, have nonetheless exposed a danger - diminishing yet further any media interest in the regular season. I hear the defence that "other sports do it and it works" but we need to tailor our competitions to address our own specific biggest problem, that of limited media interest. Steady interest in an ongoing interesting competition will pay higher dividends than flash in the pan headlines twice a year or so.

We aren’t ‘a northern sport’ we gain nothing from trying to be ‘a northern sport’ we need, as a sport, to get over this chippiness. People in the south, or in france aren’t ‘wrong’ because they aren’t RL fans, we shouldn’t hold it against them. The game needs to be inclusive, it needs to get over its flatcap and whippets obsession and realise that the game belongs to the kids playing in a park in cornwall as much as it does to the kids playing in the park in Hunslet.

There isn’t some conspiracy against us, the Media doesn’t pay us enough attention because we are a fairly insular sport that doesn’t really include the wider community, not because of some Union bias, people elsewhere don’t watch the game in great numbers because he have done the square root of f@ck all to sell it to them. We expect that people from outside the game should be grateful we have deigned to give them the opportunity to play our game rather than welcoming them.

It isn’t the establishments fault, its not RU’s fault, its not the Vichy regimes fault. Its our fault. Its us as a community the whine incessantly about cost despite the game being ridiculously cheap, about having to travel despite there only being two games outside a small geographical area, its th RL community that doesn’t attend internationals, it’s the RL community that doesn’t support things like the Magic Weekend. It’s the RL community that doesn’t look forward to a trip to London every year but treats the club like an unwanted step-child being forced on our nice little family. We, as a community, are more to blame about the state of game than anybody else.

Gutterfax's opinions on our sport do have credence and should be considered, the reason being they are from a detached perspective, a former follower of union, a genuine convert to the sport, without the bias we northerners have

He is able to detach himself from the emotion of growing up following a local club in a different era that many of us hark back to, he is also able to detach the sport from the business, something many can not do, it is people like him that RL needs to build and prosper

Except it isn’t, and we know it isn’t. The crowds at yo-yo clubs fall, it does untold damage to them as a business, and it stops them growing. More fans will watch an SL side which loses every game than a championship side which wins every game. It is demonstrable fact that people, in general, are less likely to watch a relegated team, less likely to watch a team get relegate, and even less likely to watch a team get promoted than watch a middling SL side. If you want an acceptance of fact as opposed to wishful thinking, start with this [u( all people in traditional RL areas ) the chance to watch a team that is either in the top flight, or with the fans loyal support could get promoted into it [/uwill not [uExpand total crowds[/u

Would be a great idea, and i agree, its acheivable. It is one of many things we as a game could do.
But this is just wrong. Magic Weekend gets tons of publicity. It does exactly what we need it to do. It provides a nice weekend where fans can get together,it keeps the game in people's consciousness, people who may not be season ticket holders will go to these event, and will attend other Rigby League events because of it.

The grand final makes loads of news, it has relative to the game very high visibility, the play-offs too (another example of RL fans not supporting RL) much higher than the regular season. The play-offs and the league promote the game, and increase media interest not diminish it. A league campaign which would have been over for all but 2 clubs with 2 months of season to go would have meant zero media interest for a quarter of the season.
Media interest isn’t a thing we will just get, there will be peaks and troughs in it, there will be times when the media is very interested in what we do, times we barely get a mention. We should have more events, more tent pegs to build the year around, that is how we will build media interest, If we have a big event every month or two of the year then we will get bigger interest at least every month or two throughout the year, that will impact on the amount of interest we get in between those tent pegs as well.

We as a game should be doing more of these things, not less, we should be doing them a little better, but the very last thing we need to do is remove or downgrade our high-profile events.
We should have more, We should do it at the start of the season, start with a bang, for example, this years first game is a Friday night game between Leeds and Hull, and Hull KR are playing Les Catalans on the Saturday, traditionally a smaller game for them. Together those games will probably get about 25k attendances. Why not go for it? From now on, the start of every season Leeds play hull FC and Hull KR play Les Catalans, do it as a double header first Saturday of the season, try and sell out St James’ park. it’s the first game in 4 months, it’s a 2 hour drive, easy train links, a great night out afterwards, there is no reason we couldn’t sell it out which would be a great start to the year and because it is every year so people know when it is and can plan for it.

Then the media will see that there is a start of the SL season which is attracting 55k attendances, result in higher visibility and a more positive image of the game, with the added bonus of people in newcastle getting the chance to watch top class rugby league. Lets do more of that type of thing.

Whilst the game stays in 3 pockets of the north it will gradually die.

On top of that there is a new threat from Australia with the Aus Dollar. Our top players will depart to Sydney thus watering down our product

Forget roots & history etc it stands for nothing- If you stand still you are going backwards and thats what RL is doing

And for those who think Twickers is only used for Internationals 7 times a year keep your ears peeled for the crowd at Harlequins this weekend.

Quote Apart from the odd bit of ' handbags ' and verbal abuse RL is relatively tame, unless maybe you just get the pi55 heads on the lash in London at the Stoop, but as you say still much better than mass policing as you see in footy '" so says starbug As I mentioned earlier viewtopic.php?f=21&t=541802&tsmp=1356613060&start=10 But there are only a few- "yeah" of course there is! You want to see the away fans that roll up at the Stoop after 6 hours drinking on a bus and what comes with it.

Quote Apart from the odd bit of ' handbags ' and verbal abuse RL is relatively tame, unless maybe you just get the pi55 heads on the lash in London at the Stoop, but as you say still much better than mass policing as you see in footy '" so says starbug As I mentioned earlier viewtopic.php?f=21&t=541802&tsmp=1356613060&start=10 But there are only a few- "yeah" of course there is! You want to see the away fans that roll up at the Stoop after 6 hours drinking on a bus and what comes with it.

Getting rid of "idiots" like you would be a great start

Part of a problem, look at Wembley this year, 30,000 Wire fans, 30,000 Leeds fans
YET
both clubs not getting anywhere near that week on week, granted it's a final but clubs need to attract those fans, then those fans bring in more money to the game, in turn meaning more investment and more people brings in more sponsorship.

Marketing really is the key, even if it is a slow burner, more needs to go in to selling the product, again even if that means drip feeding it in to the public conscience.