its defo not a scary australia team

I'd guess Bentham was under instruction to allow a lot more leniency at the ruck, but who's made that call? Sheens & Kearney didn't seem to know much about it.

If that was a SL game it would have been a penalty fest, the ruck speed in the NRL is more controlled but nothing like that, so why did we get it last night?

Bentham was pretty slack in terms of the defensive line last night. With him having to concentrate on the lying on the Aussies were free to infringe on the ten metres and we will have to be aware of that next week. In particular one of the props was shooting out of the line nearly every single tackle. Now I'm not proposing any changes other than this should be properly policed because if it isn't we'll end up back down the dark alleys of 5m football and that is unacceptable to me given the progress the sport has made over the past twenty years. I don't want to watch rugby union. I want to watch league!

on the brightside from a england point of view...the aussies might have lost shillington (knee) & willie tonga (suspected broken rib)...


and if tonga is out,you can't play with a broken rib,then the aussies are really struggling in the .....

Perhaps they should have made more of an effort to court Reed

why he's a very ordinary player






the aussies will probably play tony williams at if it comes down to it.....and he is a unit

Shillington can be replaced.
Tonga has not done so well and Inglis may come in for him.
If they are stuck they will have to play Luke Lewis or Beau Scott in the centres.
Maybe they will move Boyd to the Centres and bring Yow Yeh or Morris onto the wing.
Either way it will have too much for the Kiwis in the final.

I could not agree more.

It was a breath of fresh air to witness something resembling a real game of rugby league and a physical contest last night instead of the watered-down, manufactured version which passes for so called 'entertainment' these days. Defences were allowed to compete with attack and physically get in their faces. We don't need to manufacture time and space just so that ordinary players lacking in skills can scoot forward for easy metres in wide open spaces in some kind of Super League stylee tagfest. You stick to watching Super League week-in, week-out if you prefer that crap. I want to see a real contest in representative games.

There were enough tries and points scored last night which proved that players armed with the requisite skills are able to manufacture and create their own time and space without help from referees keeping teams apart. I like to watch a game of rugby league and to watch what the players actually do and what they can create themselves under intense pressure. I want to see a hard, physical contest between attack and defence. I don't go to watch the performance of referees and then blame them for any lack of creativity and skills on show from the players and teams themselves.

The watered-down, namby-pamby, scoot-scoot Super League brand of rugby league isn't progress by any stretch of anyone's imagination and it ought to have no place on the international stage.

I heard the very same prior to the 2005 Tri Nations Final, the 2008 World Cup Final and the 2010 Four Nations Final... the Aussies will have too much for the Kiwis in all those finals.

The Kiwis won them all.

Not really that much skills holding someone down is it. It was very scrappy. I do agree that in SOME games the refs have wanted it to be like tag rugby (the wire-hudds game springs to mind) It's about getting the balance right, we don't want a scoot fest, but mos fans don't want the wrestling tactics we saw yesterday

You can say what you want but I was getting text messages saying last night was boring especially in the first half. I'm undecided on the matter but I do not want to go to a position where we end up with players being gang-jumped a second after receiving the ball every tackle. There has to be a mix between the two. Our game should not be so open that it resembles basketball and the same time it shouldn't be so oppressive that it resembles rugby union.

There's far less skill in making scoots in wide open spaces via manufactured quick PTB's. I'd rather watch a tough physical arm-wrestle than that watered-down SL rubbish. I'm not interested in what most SL fans want either... they can stick to watching SL if that's what makes them happy.

I do agree that we need to find the right balance between attack and defence in order for it to be a fair contest though.

I thought todays game was a good balance. The ref was very good, very consistent. Didn't let you lay on, but it wasn't a scoot fest.

I'm guessing all those text messages you received were from fans of the scoot-scoot Super League style of play which is whoop-de-doo 'entertainment' all the way (of course it is - yawn), yes?

I mean Rob Burrow was a unanimous Harry Sunderland Trophy winner in the SL Grand Final the other week on the back of what skill exactly? That's right... a scoot-scoot performance after manufactured quick PTB's in manufactured wide open spaces



Agree with you that we need to get the balance right. The holding down tactics of both sides were allowed a bit too much latitude but at least it was good to see a physical arm wrestle for a change.

It all made for a pleasant change IMO. I'm bored of easy metres gained on the back of scoots from dummy half or first receiver. Attacking teams are rewarded enough with 10 metres of territory after being tackled. What more do they want? I enjoyed the arm wrestle, the slowing down and the physical nature. The players are skilful enough to manufacture their own territory and space instead of having it manufactured for them.

Aren't they?

Funnily enough no. It was from good old Despo who is a "It used to be better in the 5m days" character lol.



I don't disagree with that.



I think we all understand that but striking the balance is not as easy as it looks and it's never more in evidence than in the comparisons between Super League and the NRL. The truth lies right between the two. It is unlikely to ever be resolved because of the factitious nature of how our sport is governed across the world.

The despondent one changes his despondent views according to which way the wind happens to be blowing. He's an advocate of the 'entertaining' SL style on another day... particularly if it involves Saints on a flat-track bully, scoot-scoot mission against some lower ranked Super League tripe lol

People are concentrating on the speed of the ruck in the Australia Kiwi’s game but it was more than that. It took an age for every restart with players refusing to even arrive at the scrum – I lost count of the number of times the ref had to call players over to form a full scrum complement, he should have blown a few penalties

Both the games so far have lacked intensity compared to the top end matched we have seen this year (on both sides of the world) and that’s shocking considering they were international games. I can let the England Wales game go as there was only ever going to be one winner but I thought the Australia New Zealand game was poor considering they were supposed to be the elite of our game

The Australia/NZ game was scratchy yet still way ahead of the England/Wales game in terms of skill and intensity which isn't bad considering all the players bar one only arrived in the country last week after long flights. England will need to improve ten-fold next week just to match Australia's scratchy performance last night.

Agree with Keith in that there is far more skill in breaking down a set defensive line than the SL style quick PTB scoot rugby. Plus i think it is more entertaining watching a good half clinically break down a line with a pass than watching a hooker/half scooting and scoring off the back of a lightning quick PTB and a scattered defence.

Whilst you may feel there are truths in what you say, as a game it was still pretty average overall. Hardly like the match a couple of years back at The Stoop.

Different context two years ago. The Kiwis hadn't been hammered in Australia's back yard less than 2 weeks prior to the 4N game in the UK like they were this year. They are also missing a lot more key players this year through injury. Confidence isn't as high and they needed to set down a marker for later on in the tournament. I think they achieved that and if they make the 4N Final, they are are good chance of beating Australia again. I don't agree that last night's game was that inferior in quality to the one at the Stoop two years ago anyhow as I don't judge quality on the availability of manufactured quick PTB's and scoots from dummy half to suit particular tastes in entertainment

Well that’s hardly a surprise is it – who expected anything different?

Simply put, the England Wales game was pretty much as everybody expected while the Australia New Zealand was well down on the standard that these two nations have served up in the past

If it was down to both expecting their proper contest being in the final so they lacked focus then I hope more than ever that England turns one of them over and makes the final

However, I actually suspect that the real reason is it was a poor international game is that there were a few world class players on show and a whole load more who wouldn’t have got near a Kangaroo or Kiwi jersey in previous seasons

You sound like a MMA apologist there bud





I have yet to find a person who does.

5 metres instead of 10 might be the answer? I think you have to give quick PTB's to good attacking plays as a reward, I guess how you then use that - scoot from dummy half or move the ball through hands - is what makes the game a spectacle.