On reading this, one would think that Wakefield were the slick operators in 21st Century sport, sweeping all from their path.
In reality, all that has come out of Belle Vue for decades (off the pitch) is hot air and inaction.

I can hear the reply being formulated "But that was in the past, the future's going to be different" ... aye and pigs will fly.

Not really.

Most of us hope that their new owners will actually come through, but surely they should be made to prove it this time before taking their word blindly once again?

I'm not disagreeing with anything Vastman has said, merely stating that the RL should have told Fax of the reasons they weren't getting a franchise place before they announced who would be. As far as I can see, the only reason they didn't get a franchise place is because they haven't, as Widnes have, a sugar daddy. The possession of a benevolent chairman is probably vital to any SL club but it wasn't part of the criteria. My main point is the whole thing could have been handled far better than it has.

I'm not making any point about the Crusaders. Your problem Chris is you are so angry trying to justify your opinions you don't listen. The point I'm making is the minute big money enters into a sport it turns nasty and there are losers and winners both on and off the pitch. Thus you end up with fans back biting over issues that barely registered 20 years ago.

So what do you want Chris, to go back to the older simpler times or take the money and take your chances. You must be pretty naive if you think it is ever going to be any different their will always be darker forces at work and no club is innocent. It's alright criticising Lewis and Co but what exactly do you expect from them. They are employed for a start by the very clubs they are supposed to be in charge of. These same clubs including your own who have rich and powerful men behind them pushing their own agendas - they are on a hiding to nothing at the RFL.

Lewis didn't invent the franchise, he is employed to implement it by the clubs which surprise surprise includes Widnes. The clubs created this situation not their vessel the RFL, just remember that. They did it because club owners just like fans tend to have an I'm alright Jack mentality.

That coming from a HKR fan? Wow.

And you know they took it blindly. Where of course everything you and Fax offer is gospel and beyond reproach. You have a new owner after going into admin and so do we, why do you seem to think your so much better than us. You are one arrogant sod.

The presence of a (and I absolutely loath this term) "sugar daddy" has been completely over stated. In fact, the businessman at the helm of Widnes has made it a priority to make us a self sufficient top flight club, he's not preparing to waste money year after year.

We already had a stadium, we already had the best crowds in the division, we've got a history of promoting youth. The one thing he has brought which we sorely lacked is financial stability. But I feel that our previous problems were due to mismanagement, not unsustainability.

What we've seen at Crusaders is that what is needed is not a bottomless pit of cash, it's good management. Yes, with a bit of cash, but thats not the end of it.

First off, characterising me as angry is very far off the mark. I'm not angry. I'm not a fax fan and my club has not missed out, so you are wrong.

I don't listen? I don't listen? This is the VT. No one listens. If they did, I and others would not have come under such unjustifiable criticism over the crusaders issue. Let's not get personal. I've not made judgements on you, and you shouldn't make them of me.

The rest of your post bares no resemblance to anything I've ever said so I'm ignoring it.

Of course it doesn't - it's an attempted explanation of my original point which you didn't understand. Chris, it's not all about you

You were responding to me!

Jesus Christ.

What do you think the various external professionals roles where? Clearly, they were there to interrogate the data in the business plan, facilities etc and determine what was good (and achievable) and then make comments to the RFL independent board based on their professional acumen.

If as has been suggested the Fax application was full of holes, then the external professionals would have no choice but to point out the flaws and the score would be affected accordingly.

I haven't seen any proof that Wakefield was chosen over you. It's been said from good sources that ours was not the worst application from the Super League. Just because everyone has been slagging us off for years does not make it.

Good luck anyway. Would rather see you in than Quins.

Suggested on here by Wakefield fans but not in any way shape or form substantiated with any evidence.

Halifax's bid was seen originally in the first round of licenses when they were up against Widnes and Barrow. Widnes were thankfully successful, but Halifax were then told it was good enough to be considered later, that they made all the valid criteria. It obviously wasn't swiss cheese as people are suggesting, otherwise they wouldn't have put it through for later consideration.

I have never agreed with anything you have said before, as im sure you're aware.

But this actually makes sense.

It has been said also that we put in a bid that was much better than expected. Fax were told to stay in because of worries about Crusaders, in my view, but we fouled things up by putting in a much better bid than expected.

"It has been said" where exactly? Rumours from fans.

But didnt he say he put in nigh on a million pounds in the first four months or so he owned Widnes?

Its ok saying O'connor has made it a priority to make Widnes self sufficient, and I have no reason to doubt that, but if he needs to spend £1m, £2m, £3m, £5m, £10m to do that, he needs to have £1m, £2m, £3m, £5m, £10m to do it.

What we have seen with Crusaders is the costs involved in making that jump are massive, and if they had a Steve O'connor prepared to pump in the money to make them self-sufficient like he wants to do with Widnes, They likely could have done.

There are some fans whose stated facts I accept, and it is a small bunch, but that was the prevailing wisdom not so long ago. Wakey fans always thought we had a good application. We just expected to be dumped out because it had become an easy option for the RFL: it had become the accepted opinion and Cas were doing too well on the pitch.

If you were in the championship, you wouldn't have made the criteria set out and wouldn't have been able to get to this stage. Think about that.

There are actually some facts about if you look hard enough. And want to see them.

Crusaders were a shambles and as I've said elsewhere the RFL were to blame for ignoring warnings about Samuels and clearly not carrying out a proper 'fit and proper persons' test on Moss and Roberts. I didn't see Woods' interview so I'll refrain from commenting other than to say that he could have been persuasive eloquence personified and it still wouldn't have helped, such is the entrenched attitude towards the RFL right now.

Administration can't be held against a club now because the rules were changed. Not hard to understand. Neither [ishould[/i it be hard to understand that the 'competition' is about ALL the things you mentioned plus others. It's the overall package that counts. For some reason this seems to be a difficult concept for some fans - and to be fair some commentators - to grasp.

Finally - there has been plenty of rage on here and the Fax board, whether you feel it's justified or not.

Genuine question - what would they have failed on?

Don't have to, because we have never been relegated to the championship. Think about that.

You can't have it both ways.

If you are for franchising, our application was stronger. That was the determination. End of.

If you are against franchising, Fax would have been in this year in place of Quins as a promoted side. If you are against franchising, however, you have to accept that Widnes don't deserve to come up, because you've never won the Grand Final. You can't have it both ways.