Quote ="Sheldon"It would appear the op is correct and the rfl have changed the quota rules, again. www.thisishullandeastriding.co.u ... ticle.html This bit would make me laugh if it wasn't so sad. Asked by the Mail whether this could allow teams to potentially sign 10 overseas stars, the RFL today admitted it could. "With a limit of 5 on each list (Quota and Non Fed) a club could, although very unlikely, have 10 ‘overseas’ players." Very unlikely? Give me strength!'" It IS unlikely. To have 10, you would need to sign 5 Aussies/Kiwis aged 18 so that they counted as Fed Trained. It's possible, but unlikely.

Quote ="Sheldon"It would appear the op is correct and the rfl have changed the quota rules, again. www.thisishullandeastriding.co.u ... ticle.html This bit would make me laugh if it wasn't so sad. Asked by the Mail whether this could allow teams to potentially sign 10 overseas stars, the RFL today admitted it could. "With a limit of 5 on each list (Quota and Non Fed) a club could, although very unlikely, have 10 ‘overseas’ players." Very unlikely? Give me strength!'" It IS unlikely. To have 10, you would need to sign 5 Aussies/Kiwis aged 18 so that they counted as Fed Trained. It's possible, but unlikely.

Nope

seems to me that hull kr have discovered a loophole the rfl missed and are now simply using it,and the rfl are going with it as they are too late to do anything else.you cant rely have a dig at hkr about it in a results driven envoirement as they are simply trying to do the best they can in the short term.
the rfl really need to adress this asap though as having so many overseas players in super league is not conducive to the development of our indigenous young players.as i have stated on here before the rfl need to give some financial incentative to clubs using/developing home grown players, as well as capping it to 5 overseas players regardless of kolpak/loopholes etc.

Because it would then be confusing with, for instance, French players. They would either then count on the overseas list, which isn't helpful, or would be an anamoly in that they are from overseas yet don't count on the overseas list. The non-fed trained category is exactly what it says, players who weren't trained in the RLEF.


Absolutely


I don't see why the RFL can't publish on the SL website a list of the homegrown, fed trained and non-fed trained and quota players in each squad. Then everybody knows.
Additionally I don't see why individual clubs cant also do this on their own website.

Because individual clubs have far more important things to worry about; ie trying to win superleague. I couldn't care what nationality the players are. Winning SL is all that matters.

No they haven't discovered a loophole.
The overseas quota runs in conjunction with the non-fed trained rules (introduced in 200icon_cool.gif
For instance just using Leeds.

There are currently 7 "foreign" players in Leeds squad:
Brent Webb
Brett Delaney
Kylie Leuluai
Danny Buderus
Ali Lauitiiti
Ben Cross
and Weller Hauraki

Due to the pre-08 rule (whereby players who were in SL for the 2008 season are exempt from the non-fed trained rule, effectively designating them as "Federation Trained"icon_wink.gif only:
Brett Delaney
Danny Buderus
Ben Cross
and Weller Hauraki

count on Leeds' "Non-Federation Trained" list.

However there is also the "Overseas Quota" (which has been around for ages) which is set at 5. Now this is where it gets even fuzzier as anyone with a certain passport (EU and certain other countries who signed agreements with the EU) are exempt from the Overseas Quota.
Now I don't know which of Leeds' players are exempt from this, but obviously at least 2 of the 7 must be.
I would imagine that: Brett Delaney, Danny Buderus & Ben Cross all count on the overseas quota (and also count on the "Non-Federation Trained" list at the same time) since none have been here long and to my knowledge none have any citizenship/passport other than Australian. Brent Webb might have been here long enough ( I think there is a certain number of years after which you are also exempt from the overseas quota) but not sure, Kylie Leuluai and Ali Lauitiiti might get round it through playing for Samoa, I don't know to be honest.

But at least 2 of Leeds' 7 "foreigners" must be exempt from the "Overseas Quota" whilst 3 are exempt from the "Non-Federation Trained" limit. But those 2 rules run side by side not as an addition to each other.



Absolutely


Obviously that is harder to do than to say. They tried to do it in 2008 with the Non-Fed trained rules but the Simon Finnigan case (IIRC) forced their hard to have exemptions. However those exemptions will steadily retire/move back to the NRL and we will eventually have a hard and fast limit... hopefully.

Quote ="PHIPPS"Because individual clubs have far more important things to worry about; ie trying to win superleague. I couldn't care what nationality the players are. Winning SL is all that matters.'" No you're right clubs are far too busy to actually have a website to inform their customers... oh wait www.bradfordbulls.co.uk/ www.castigers.com/ www.catalansdragons.com/ www.crusadersrfl.com/ www.quins.co.uk/ www.giantsrl.com/ www.hullfc.com/ www.hullkr.co.uk/ www.leedsrugby.com/ www.reds.co.uk/ www.saintsrlfc.com/ www.wakefieldwildcats.co.uk/ www.warringtonwolves.com/ www.wiganwarriors.com/

Quote ="PHIPPS"Because individual clubs have far more important things to worry about; ie trying to win superleague. I couldn't care what nationality the players are. Winning SL is all that matters.'" No you're right clubs are far too busy to actually have a website to inform their customers... oh wait www.bradfordbulls.co.uk/ www.castigers.com/ www.catalansdragons.com/ www.crusadersrfl.com/ www.quins.co.uk/ www.giantsrl.com/ www.hullfc.com/ www.hullkr.co.uk/ www.leedsrugby.com/ www.reds.co.uk/ www.saintsrlfc.com/ www.wakefieldwildcats.co.uk/ www.warringtonwolves.com/ www.wiganwarriors.com/

Rovers have no players according to their website though!!!!

Well it's a novel way of avoiding the overseas quota and salary cap rules

All these rules that may have legal ramifications in the future could all be put to bed if the RFL were to just state that X amount of players in each teams 17 must be home grown. As I have posted before you could have as many Aussies as you like but with only say 5 being allowed to play each week you are unlikely to sign 10 overseas stars. Link this in with an incentive for producing home grown players it could work so that teams only have 6 or 7 each anyway.

If home grown players were to be exempt from the cap then this money would probably just go to signing more Aussies so I don't think this should be the case but there does need to be something there to encourage teams.

you certainly know your rules bigrob but as you agreed it does need changing.must be frustrating trying to run a sport for the benefit of your own countries players and to be permanently at the mercy of court rulings etc which affect the rules and regs you want clubs to abide by.
or is it the rl's fault for just being too weak

Yeah I agree there, it's not a simply solution sadly.


Not really

I'm simply going on my best interpretation of what's on the SL website and what's been announced recently!


Yep, as I said the 2008 Non-Federation Trained were initially a hard and fast rule but then the Simon Finnigan case led to the exemptions being allowed.


For me the RFL are damned if they do and damned if they don't. They attempted to bring in tougher rules and the clubs didn't like it and fought against it, despite saying publicly they want a better national team.

In the end I think when the exemptions steadily reduce as they retire or move back to the NRL then I think the rules will start to work much better and we will see a lower amount of overseas players. But this has to be in conjunction with an expansion of the sport, and a massive change in the quality of youth and junior coaching. At the moment it's utter dross and needs massively improving before we can think of consistently challenging the Aussies. We have players taken on at scholarship or even academy level who can't pass a ball properly and are having to be taught the basics in the clubs academy systems. That's just not good enough.

rules are rules and if the rfl insist on them the clubs should have to follow them.the clubs should not be more important then the overall well being of the game.

Nope he's Aussie (he came from a team full of them!!)

.honestly mate i'm not laughing at you, just the naivety of that statement.

While this is not a ' pop ' at licensing , it was pointed out at the time that clubs would always do what was best for themselves , and the quota system is a clear indication that all clubs will do that exactly that , some clubs are currently below or up to the limit , but most are over it one way or another

Yes HKR are particularily taking the Mick , but most clubs if they find themselves uncompetitive will do anything to move upwards , at the end of the day you cannot change human nature , coaches don't want to lose their jobs , chairmen don't want fans on their backs , and fans want a winning team

You can all pretend you are ' holyer than thou ' but your not

I know he is but so is McGoldrick but he gets away with being "American" and I'm sure I've read somewhere before Youngquest claimed to have some Swedish routes taking him off the quota.

It's all stupid, like someone else said they should just say you should have 12 home trained players in the match day 17

i maybe a little niave about the rfl and clubs,but why should they get away with breaking rules or stamping their feet if they dont get their own way when we cant.im pretty sure you have to toe the line in your place of employment etc, why should they be different.the rfl need to stand up for themselves.cant think of a more feeble sporting governing body
i suppose the joke is on everyone of us who put up with this moving the goalposts etc

i'm on your side mate,all the way,but we all know its chairmen of certain clubs that dictate policy to the rfl and the rest of its member clubs.
i suppose ATEOTD it all boils down to pure greed.

your not wrong mate,greed and an "i'll throw my toys out the pram syndrome" attitude.
for me though the rfl have to be stronger,however unlikely that is

But hkr have 10, go figure?

Signing overseas players who have been here before 2008 would give 5 fed trained players too

Yes but that's a problem that is going to diminish, not grow.

People have way over-reacted to all this I think. There aren't any hidden loopholes been uncovered or sneaky cheating going on, nor are the RFL being weak. IMO, they have come up with a fairly innovative set of rules that are designed to encourage home grown talent development and gradually reduce reliance on overseas players whilst at the same time being careful to avoid contravening any EU employment laws and being unfair to any players already here at the time of rule changes.

The non-Aussie/Kiwi passport method of escaping the Overseas Quota rules is one that's been known about by anyone for years and that's why the RFL created the home-grown and Fed-Trained categories. Yes, the rate of reduction of overseas players has probably been much slower that hoped for (clubs should probably have been down to 5 by now), but progress is being made.

SEB are you aware that hkr have 6 overseas players not counting on the 2008 rule? This isn't the rfl sticking to the same rules, they've made some more up!