I don't have a problem with export players, tell me if the Crusaders or Robbins win either the Challenge Cup or Super League would their supporters actually give a stuff where the players come from

Substitute Jeff Lima for Adam Blair. I wasn't having a go at Wigan, as I said in my post, you cannot blame Maguire for doing the job he was appointed to do. If Wigan win the GF again next year he will be vindicated. My point is simply that whilst the needs of the national game come second to the needs of the clubs, quality import players will be found at every club and this will restrict the number of British players gaining experience at the highest level. The official Wigan website has on its squad page, possibly seven import players - Carmont, Leuluai, Lima, Hoffman, Finch, Roberts and Richards - I'm sure you will correct me if I have mistakenly labelled them 'imports' or if they have already left the club. My point is that if our SL champions may be fielding import players which represent up to half of their starting thirteen, this is disappointing for our national team. This is not an anti-Wigan point, other clubs will be doing exactly the same. Wigan is arguably the greatest hot-bed of rugby league in the country and has quite possibly produced more internationals for Great Britain than any other area. This is why I worry for our national team when a great club like Wigan decides, for whatever reason, to have so many imports on its books rather than use more local players. The same can be said of Saints, Leeds, etc, but I thought that using our champions to make the point would give it more credibility.

I am not comparing how easy or difficult it is , just that it is different , a RU player at age 17/18 who hasn't been fortunate enough to be picked up by the local pro RU team will be better prepared to play open age pro RL than a 15/16 yr old RL player 4 years through a scholarship/academy

And lets not forget here that the Wrexham/Welsh Crusaders have not produced anybody , the players they have are products of the Celtic crusaders and the SWS

Born and raised in Oldham , if you are going to post things , try ' wiki ' first

The ' Crusaders ' , Welsh/Wrexham or otherwise haven't produced anything yet , there only achievement is to complete a season of SL matches

HKR will produce players shortly , as you well know

So, as you are refusing to acknowledge the positives of the Welsh franchise as a whole, im guessing your attitude will be the same to the negatives? And as such, this Welsh franchise as 'W Crusaders' have never been bust, never gone into administration, never had visa problems with any of their players and you wont be bringing those negatives up then?

I have never suggested they had , find me a link if you like

Well, no, they havent even done that apparently. They are a completely new business, new club, and as such have done nothing, either positive or negative.


Time will tell,

Seems odd, and very telling that you are crediting Hull KR with something they are yet to, and may not do, Yet finding odd and meaningless distinctions to take away from what Crusaders have done

I hadnt suggested you had, notice the tense.

I just wanted to be clear that you will not, in any way, positive or negative, lump the Celtic Crusaders, Crusaders and 'W Crusaders' together as one club, following your logic they are three completely distinct and separate clubs and that you wouldnt wish to put any of the positives or negatives of any one of the clubs onto the other.

Just to make sure you are being consistent for once.


Id also ask, what has stopped Hull KR 'plugging the gap' with converted 16/17/18 year old union players? If Crusaders can do it, why couldnt HKR?

No problem , but even you must admit it is getting bit confusing , maybe you will reply to others when they lump them all together positively , just to be consistent

This is your assertion not mine. I personally think it would be overly simplistic to look at them as a brand new club, or as one club throughout.

They are where they are now, because of where they were and what they did before. Positive and Negative. It is a little silly to criticise this incarnation for the Visa issue, but not for the problems of this off-season. Similarly it would be overly kind to credit this incarnation with giving players like Elliot Kear a debut, but it would be ridiculous to not credit them with continuing to use and bring in that type of player.

People like you, love to over simplify because it allows you to build your straw men and point out contradiction and hypocrisy where there is none.

before 2007 they didn't , as you well know it takes several years to see these systems near fruit

Just out of interest are the Welsh/Wrexham Crusaders running scholarship/academies in North Wales ? , if so we should see them start to produce players in 5/6 years time

Who are ' they ' exactly ?

Owners ?

Players ?

Coaches ?

Fans ?

Or do you just mean a name ?

So how many actual 1 st team games have these players ' plugged ' ?

Thats lovely, doesnt seem to address anything i put, but its lovely all the same.

Regardless, as we have seen, some SL clubs pay nothing but lip service to youth development, and whilst they may run scholarships and academies, their youth development is pitiful and commitment to young british players poor. Why do you assume, with evidence to the contrary and nothing in favour, that Hull KR will be different?

Yes they do, and they are producing players now, they are just 'in the main' coming from different areas. And there is nothing wrong with that. Leeds have done it with Rory Kettlewell, Saints with Dan Brotherton. It just seems you need to criticise it because some of your 'favoured' clubs have failed in this respect and it counters a lot of their excuses.

all of the above They are what makes Crusaders RL,

Well no, that would be ridiculous as the one thing they definitely have changed is their name.

Nice attempt at avoidance though.

73

So which actual perssonel have been involved with all the incarnations ?

The name ' Crusaders ' which has been the only constant between the three

What evidence to the contrary , they have just had a player selected for an International squad , how many Leeds players made the same squad ?

Do they , can youprovide a link ?

How many 1 st team games have these players played ?

Can you provide a link to this thanks ?

is irrelevant.
and being based in Wales, and playing RL, and a fair few fans. but that doesnt fit your agenda does it.

7,

www.slstats.org/

none yet, which is relevant because............? Rory kettlewell and Dan Brotherton are examples of clubs going out, finding an RU player and bringing him to RL. It is to be seen if they are good enough, but they are still doing it

but how about two other examples like Simon Worrall and Liam Botham?

Quote ="SmokeyTA"7, www.slstats.org/ none yet, which is relevant because............? Rory kettlewell and Dan Brotherton are examples of clubs going out, finding an RU player and bringing him to RL. It is to be seen if they are good enough, but they are still doing it but how about two other examples like Simon Worrall and Liam Botham?'" Now you are taking the pi55

Quote ="SmokeyTA"7, www.slstats.org/ none yet, which is relevant because............? Rory kettlewell and Dan Brotherton are examples of clubs going out, finding an RU player and bringing him to RL. It is to be seen if they are good enough, but they are still doing it but how about two other examples like Simon Worrall and Liam Botham?'" Now you are taking the pi55

And much less fits your agenda

You cannot answer a question once again , surprisingly

Unfortunatly this link isn't working , try again