It isn't as simple as that , there a many other issues including social ones , basically we are no good at any team sport anymore unless we fill it full of players from overseas

I'm not sure we can put the lack of enthusiasm for international league purely down the results. When you compare England/GB’s record against Australia against in RL with the fact that Scotland and Ireland national teams have never beaten the All Blacks in RU how can you say the lack of success drives the fans away

The simple fact is that the game of RL is dominated by the club scene – in many ways this is great as we have some great clubs and derbies etc but the international game will always come second

Once again, look at Union – all the home nations played this weekend and yet a full round of Aviva premiership games were played and the club teams have seen their star players leave for a month of Autumn international fixtures. Northampton have lost Ben Foden and Chris Ashton to the England team for four consecutive weeks during the season. As an example, what would be the reaction if the RFL said to Saints that they would be taking James Graham and Kyle Eastmond for four weeks during the Super League season... this is from both the fans and the club (and Saints fans, this is just an example – it would be the same for all clubs). It will all happen again for the Six Nations

Rugby League is a great game and I am sure that we could grow the international game but that would take a level of commitment and sacrifice from everybody involved in the game that I do not expect to see. This is a pity because the growth of the international game would surely be a driver for the future health and success of our game

I am not on about the quality of the game I mean come on we all know it's rubbish.
The point I am making is union know where their strength is,which is international rugby.
I agree with you about the grassroots,we have to get them in order to compete with the Aussies/Kiwis.
If we want the game to get stronger we have to get the international game in order,this is my point.

Great post mate,the problem with RL is their total lack of commitment to the international scene.
I am glad too see other people see that the international game is the future,it's just a pity that the RLIF can't see this.

We had a strong club scene when we were filling Wembley for Internationals , that hasn't changed , but if we tried now after 30 years of failure , no chance

So many try to compare our game with Union , they are followed by completely different sets of social people , it doesn't matter to the Scots or Irish if they havent beaten the All Blacks because they have beaten the English , Welsh and French in the last 30 years , who have we beaten in the last 30 years ? , we even celebrated a drawn series against the Kiwi's like we' ed won the World Cup



International RL will never have a high profile until we have more than 2/3 countries that can compete with each other , and that wont happen in my life time , and I intend staying around for a long time yet

The RLIF are putting together a decent international scene with the 4 Nations supported by the European and Pacific Cups with the reward of the fourth spot for the 4 Nations and the better planning for the World Cups. Again, I would look further afield and say that it is the clubs and club supporters who are the barriers to international growth

I would love to see a full Kangaroo/Lions tour again and a three match ashes series being played but with the seasons being concurrent in the Northern and Southern hemispheres now that would require a tour in mid season. Of course this is logistically very easy but it will never happen as the clubs and many of the fans would simply not allow it to happen as they would lose their key players for a length of time... that isn’t the RLIF’s fault

Who is ' their ' ?

So it is the SL clubs fault ?

Not like them to put their own clubs before the ' greater good of the game ' is it

Not the Super League clubs in particular, but Rugby League clubs and the club fans (it can’t be Super League as this goes back for decades)

I’m not suggesting there is any right or wrong here or apportioning any blame, I am simply saying that in Rugby League the clubs come before the international game and this is the real barrier to the growth of the international scene

true enough,but it doesn't HAVE to be that way - clubs are nurturing through their academies which will bear fruit IF and WHEN these clubs ie Wigan,Leeds,Saints,Widnes etc etc have the balls to give these lads the opportunities in the big time rather than taking on some thirty-year old (or near enough) reject from the NRL and farming these young hopefuls into the lower leagues - these overseas oldies are restricting the advancement of the game in the SL and consequently the C & C1
Sam Tomkins was effectively thrown in at the deep-end by default and look at his progress - we have the talent,let's give it a chance
The County Championship of cricket is failing to develop their youngsters because of the counties continuing to employ the likes of Ramprakesh etc etc - it's holding up the progress of the game

what are the 'social issues' ?

Well it isn't the likes of Leigh , Batley and Rochdale that are supplying the players who cant get anywhere near the Aussies , is it , so I'll give you the benifit of the doubt , just the last 15 years then

To be honest, I think I’m looking at a slightly bigger picture than you here. I’m not even talking about the results, I’m talking about attitudes that are prevalent throughout the whole of Rugby League

Again, to stress, I am not attributing any right or wrong – simply stating what I see as the biggest barrier to international growth

So how does SL clubs having loads of aussies restrict the Championships


The social issues are the lack of proper competitive sport played in schools , were ' winning and losing ' arent allowed anymore

Plus us all being afraid of letting our kids out through the door to play in the street for fear of them being abducted

how can anyone disagree with that ?

The attitude of who , to what ?

OK, I will say it one more time... the attitude of the Rugby League professional clubs and their fans to the international scene

The home nations in Rugby Union will play 9 internationals ‘during’ the season (4 Autumn internationals and 5 Six Nations games) in which the professional clubs lose their best players for these games

Can you imagine the outcry from the clubs and the fans if this were to happen in RL? It doesn’t matter what type of international programme is put together, if the people inside the sport don’t commit to it, how can we expect to capture the wider sporting public?

getting interested , or us either beating the Aussies/kiwi's or other countries being able to beat us

Until one or the other happens , nobody will give a toss , I certainly dont

Blinkered.

Again it goes back to attitude (which I have to say you are demonstrating perfectly)

I started my posts on this thread by reminding everybody that the Irish and Scottish Union teams have never beaten the New Zealand All Blacks ever. That’s right, never beaten them in the hundred plus years of internationals

The Italian team was invited into the Five Nations and were battered every game and yet there was no call for them to be thrown out... no, they were the ‘gallant’ underdogs that everybody supported

England beat France heavily and there are calls never to play them again. On the contrary, we should play regular three match series against the French to put international Rugby League at the forefront of the sport... persevere with it and the competitive matches will follow and the sport will grow, on both sides of the Channel

Or we could just sit back with a defeatist and negative... oh, what’s the word... yes, attitude!

No , you are the blinkered one , how many different countries have beaten England/GB in the last 30 years ?

How many competitions/series have England/GB =#FF0000won in the last 30 years ?

We dont have an International ' scene ' in RL , until we do , nobody will be interested

Strangely , the one thing that Richard Lewis has done that I congratulate him on , is to start to put actual ' competitions ' in place that will eventually give us an International 'scene ' , however it will not challenge the top 3 for many decades , IMO of course , and as we are in that top 3 we will not have that ' competition ' for many years

Yes I know , but they have beaten every other country in that time , they have won 5/6 nations competitions and they have a dozen other countries to play that in any given year either they can beat or they can lose to , that is called an international ' scene '

Yes they put the Italians in , so that was 5 countries the Italians could play that would test them to different degree's , and there was at the same time another 5/6 countries that they could play , that they were capable of beating , that is called an International ' scene '

We have never had an International ' scene ' , When the French won the world cup we had a chance , their dropping off all but killed that chance , 3 teams does not a ' scene ' make

with the lack of P & R the overseas players are not affecting the C/C1 tho' it is affecting the future of England international rl
bring back P & R in the SL and cut down the overseas contingent drastically and your/our precious C/C1 will thrive - it's he only chance as I see it

as for the social issues - well these appear to be endemic in the uk nowadays,that's why we moved to france in the eighties - we have similar problems in some cities tho' most of france is still how britain used to be thirty years ago - by the way,very little sport is played in french schools it's all run by volunteers after school or at weekends - sport is well organised over here with winning and losing still a big part of the game.

you paint a gloomy picture of Britain - the french way is to rebel and make themselves heard when these social issues arise - this usually results in a change but in Britain you just accept the situation so nothing gets done.Try rebelling,don't let the b****ds grind you down...

What has that got to do with the disinterest in the International game ?

Nothing

A different issue and a different problem

And it goes back to your chicken and egg comment.... the teams you mention will play 9 international games during the regular club season. As a sport, there is a commitment to the international game at all levels

We are not there yet but we could get closer... we could play a 3 game series against the Welsh or the French (or both) during the season (and commit to it despite the initial results) or we could invite the Kiwi’s or Kangaroo’s over for a full tour and a three match test series during the summer season but the barriers to this would be from within the game not outside

I actually think we see the same problem but you see the solution as the international game growing to demand respect and attention whereas I see the answer as the people in the game committing to grow it despite the pain that may bring to individual clubs. The problem with my answer is that I don’t see the attitude in the game changing any time soon and the problem with your answer is if the people in the sport don’t commit to build the international game then who will?