I don't think we're 'clueless' as it stands at the moment.

The side is very young, with a host of both experienced (Peacock/Morley/Bridge/McGuire/Pryce etc..) and decent young talent (Eastmond/Shenton/etc..) missing from the team.

We started well and held on at the end. The Aussies had a purple patch spurred on by the try that shouldn't have been given. We also had two tries that could have been taken, given a bit more luck.

I think we keep on an even course. Hopefully the youngsters will improve and the experienced players will be available for next year. A few more players will come through. Bradford, my team, have a decent crop of young players. Particularly Donaldson and Whitehead could be pushing for the international squad if they have a good season. Other posts have mentioned other young players coming through.

When you think that, just from Bradford, Lynch, Scruton, Langley, Sykes and Goodwin justifiably didn't make the cut, it shows that we are begining to get strength in depth at international level and competition for places. We put out a competitive international team without the above mentioned players.

I think Eastmond and Pryce were missed today. We could have done with another player that can make breaks. It would have taken some heat of Tomkins, who IMO was marked out of the game by the Aussies.

BTW, I always liked Robinson. I remember him tearing St Helens apart for Wigan when he was just coming in to the first team. I never understood why Wigan gave up on him so early.

Most of the England squad today weren’t superstars. However they were the best we had to offer considering the players that have retired from the international set up and the players we have injured.

So in a sense of things they were the superstars of English selection. Steve McNamara choose the best that was at his disposal and it didn’t work. Mind you it hasn’t worked for any coach for many years unless you call the 2007 series win over New Zealand a success.

What we need is a coach that can put together a game plan to beat the best in the world regardless of the players at his disposal. You only have to Look at how Michael Maguire has turned Wigan from the third best side in the country to the very best despite having pretty much the same personnel.

Tim Sheens can work on limit resources - why can’t Steve McNamara?

What we need is someone who can turn the third best side in the world into the first best side in the world with pretty much the same squad. If we can’t get that then its time to give some of the more ‘unglamorous’ players of super league a chance to shine for England. You only have to look at the top three sides and I bet you can pick a squad of ‘average’ players from them that’d qualify for England.

Its these average players that make up the team. Its superstars that are the icing on the cake. Too much icing with very little cake to support it, is England’s problem IMO.



Its been done and it hasn’t worked.

However I agree that its time for Morley to say bye bye to the England set up.

I'm more interested in where the 25-28 year old players are? Why are we having to throw so many young, under prepared kids into the backline?

i personally dont think its all doom and gloom for me most of the backline should be perserved with its been far better than the last 2 games down under against the aussies, yes the young lads made a few errors but with a few more games under the belt at this level we have every chance of doing well in the next world cup.

Seems like the sky sports agenda is sinking through of giving youngsters a chance. Anyone older than 23 is passed it if you listen to Eddie or Stevo..

couldn't agree more - I don't really have too much criticism of the present english squad and I thought Mc Banana did well to ring the changes but we were beaten by the better team,that's clear tho' when you take into account the very dubious decisions (i'm trying to be polite !) plus the serious errors by international players I don't actually believe we are far behind the top two teams in the world.I don't believe the aussies were any more than 6 - 8 points better than us on the day

Full Back - Tomkins should be Englands full back for years to come. Cudjoe and Widdop are good back ups.

Wings - Fox, Hall, foster, Goulding, Cudjoe on their day can be very very good wingers, particularly Hall. I think he needs to rediscover some pace though. Im a very big fan of Cudjoe too. Widdop could also play wing, but he needs first grade rugby either over there or by coming back to England.

Centre - The sooner Hull start playing Briscoe at centre the better. He has the potential to be outstanding in that position. For me Shenton proved that he can potentially make the step up.

Stand off - For me Eastmond can step into the stand off role and could be devastating from that position. Obviously there is the option of playing Tomkins, but Eastmond is the #1 choice for me.

Scrum Half - Is a problem position for me. We need a scrum half to organise and Kick to allow the likes of Eastmond and Tomkins express themselves. Do we have one anywhere? No is the answer to that, so I'd be tempted to play sinfield in that role until one is found or Michael Dobson gains residency.

Props- The current incumbents are pretty strong + Liam Watts from Hull KR.

Hooker - Roby will benefit from been #1 at Sts. I also like Houghton from Hull and Lunt, but I think the days of interchange hookers are pretty much gone so id go with Roby for 80.

Back row - Again Ellis + Burgess are the 2 best 2nd rowers in the world so no problems there. If we cant find an organising 7, i'd be tempted to play Sinfield at 13 to play that role but Ive warmed to O'Loughlin and think he could make that position his own for a few years to come.

Whatever team we pick though. They would all have to be at their best on their day to beat the Kiwis and Aussies which is the difference for me.

So near yet, so far.

Unfortunately I do think that we’re far behind Australia. But we are more than capable at beat New Zealand on our own turf. Just a shame we can’t replicate that down under!

How people can believe Sam Tomkins has cemented a starting England position on this tour is beyond me.

yes he hasn;t done anything of any note. I've been underwhelmed after hearing him talked up all season. Behind that pack any back with 1/2 a skill should be able to shine.

with respect,anyone who has watched him all season has to recognise that he & Wellens have been the most consistent english qualified FBs in SL - Sam T has the added bonus of speed over Paul nowadays so has more than justified his place in the england side he's one of THE few world class english players in SL imo
The aussie chases were awsome today,any FB would have found it hard to get away from under the posts

he did seem to out of position for the long kicks though. He seemd to take an age to appear and pick up the ball. We also needed him to move up to 6 on attack or at least chime into the line wide out but he did neither.

He's only been playing full back for about 6 months, he'll improve.

Tomkins was poor. But Id like to see us stick with this team for years to come, build around it and let the guys improve. Lance Hohaia was pants when he started playing for NZ, dropping balls all over the place and offering little in attack, now he looks every bit international class. NZ have believed in their players and built an excellent squad. We need to do the same, apart from some serious dropsies we actually looked ok, some decent defence for 80 minutes of both games and some well executed moves in attack.

Mcbananarama needs to hammer into the squad the importance of ball retention and respecting posession for the next 10 years. Keep the coach, keep the squad (maybe not Harrison and Grffin!) and lets build.

This is the team i would of liked to have seen in this tournement if it had been possible:
1.S.Tomkins
2.L.Cudjoe
3.M.Shenton
4.G.Widdop
5.R.Hall good pace for his size, can score tries
6.K.Sinfield? not really sure as he is playing out of position and does not seem to perform in internatonal matches
7.K.Eastmond bit of pace and skill to beat the man
8.J.Graham never stops and good offload
9.J.Roby
10.J.Peacock can bust a tackle and offload
11.B.Westwood does his work but can give away silly penalities
12.G.Ellis another worker with good offload
13.S.Burgess can bust a tackle and offload

14.E.Crabtree
15.J.Tomkins
16.L.Robinson
17.A.Morley

what do you think a good mix of youth, experience, strength and pace?

Can i just categorically state that any RL player, from the downright average to the absolute legendary, can never, never, have the ability to make errors coached out of them. Never, d'ya hear me?

As another poster stated earlier, the problems stem from junior rugby. We always seem to have this attitude of [i'He's a big lad, play him at prop'[/i, and as a result we end up with a plethora of Wayne McDonald clones and no Greg Inglises.

We were seriously lacking an organising half and after the Aussie game people are wanting Eastmond at 7???? We need a bloke who can do a job of organising and kicking. Eastmond is not that player. He reminds me of Jason Robinson and would make a world class winger. He is too much of a runner to be a 7. Early in robinsons career they acknowledged he was not going to be a scrum half.

Benji Marshall?
Darren Lockyer?

Eastmond is an organising and kicking scrum half at Saints, and would be wasted trying to make him into a winger.

Eastmond does not look like a organising 7 to me. He looks like a similar player to Burrow of Leeds. I honestly think Eastmonds skill set is not that of an international scrum half. He may do a fair job of it in SL, but SL is nowhere near the NRL or international standard.

I'd run with Robininson at scrum half working the middle, and Eastmond and SO and Tomkins and FB, working the edges. Put a runner at loose, like Westwood or Burgess, and a lively hooker with another on the bench, and the balance is about right

The lad is 21 years old for goodness sake

Andrew Johns and Darren Lockyer, widely regarded as the best two half backs of the last decade, played at hooker and full back respectively before moving into the half backs internationally and yet Eastmond looked the part in last year’s 4 Nations

Given another couple of seasons of consistent selection policy, the likes of Sam Tomkins and Kyle Eastmond could be the best players in the finest England team for years

Eastmond has all the qualities of a top class half back and just because he can run doesn't make him a winger, it makes him a dangerous half back

Johns played 9 for Oz yes, but he played 1st receiver on that tour (in effect half back) with Toovey having a 7 on his back playing dummy half all game. This was the 95 world cup i think. Lockyer was a fullback early on but basically played stand off in attack anyway. Both of the above during this time had the required skills to play in the halves. I have not seen Eastmond display a great kicking game or the organisational skills that could cross over to the international arena. I know he is only in his early 20's but iam sick of hearing the hype about the likes of Eastmond and Myler and not seeing what this hype wants me to believe. Eastmond can run like the wind but that trait alone will not make a good international 7. Iam sorry i dont agree with your optimistic view of our English SL half backs.

I agree that Myler has a lot to do to live up to the hype he has received over the past couple of years but I think Eastmond has shown enough in the last 4 Nations and an injury hit season with Saints to justify some optimism

Time will tell I guess