The problem for England is they HAVE to win this one whereas Australia don't.

Have England got the cojones to play attacking expansive footy and cause a big upset though?

I would suggest not... but they really do have to give it a go

Why do you think this is-used before and failed, maybe a bad influence in the squad, maybe Mcnamara is looking at the next world cup

You reckon McNamara will still be in charge then?

You never know- Whoever comes in he will have some younger players with Int experience.

But just because they have 'international experience' it doesnt necessarily make them any good?

Thats a bit like saying I'm going to buy a pair of pants that have a waistband that comes up just below my nipples because Simon Cowell wears them

I suspect given the smallish pool of decent Eng players you would hope he has picked 80% of the future-good or bad.

Dont you wear high waisters like your brothers on the farms in Aus

I think this 'smallish pool' of decent England players you speak of must be incredibly shallow if a bloke that cant get a game at the Melbourne Storm is a first choice starter

No more shallow than the Australian Rugby League pool seeing as though you have turned to a 31 year Rugby Union reject to play on the wing

The main difference is that one is a good player with years of experience both at club level in the NRL and at international level too.

The other one is a bloke called Widdles who struggles to get a game at the Storm yet is nailed on to start for England because he is still better than his rival countrymen.

I'd like to see a team something like

1. Tomkins
2. Cudjoe
3. Briscoe
4. Widdop
5. Goulding
6. O'Loughlin
7. Robinson
8. Fielden
9. Lunt
10. Graham
11. Ellis
12. Westwood
13. Burgess

14. Roby
15. Harrison
16. Griffin
17. Crabtree

Why would you play Widdles at 4?

Neat side step

Tell me – what does Lote Tuqiri ‘s selection on the wing for Australia say about the playing pool of this so called bottomless pit of Rugby League playing talent in Australia... do you think it was his contract being terminated by the ARU or his outstanding performances for Leicester in the English RU premier league that got him selected?

The fact he had a decent season for the Tigpies and Tim Sheens is his club coach as well as the Australia international coach.

We've got to get Sam Tomkins in at fullback for me and give him a free reign to roam around the field like he's been doing for Wigan in the 2nd half of this season. I'd also like to see us get Joel in at centre because he is too good to be sitting on the bench for the vast majority of games and he'd cause any defence problems out there with his size, power and pace.

I'd line us up-

S Tomkins
Briscoe
Widdop
J Tomkins
Hall(if fit)
Brown
Robinson
Graham
Roby
Fielden
Ellis
Westwood(deserves to start imo)
O'Loughlin

subs
Crabtree(has to come back in)
Burgess(impact from the bench)
Harrison
Lunt

I like the look of that bench a whole heap more then yesterdays and it would give us some impact when we needed it. The backs as ever will be the worry but then the Aussie 2-5 doesn't look quite as strong as it normally does so hopefully we can limit the damage.

He looked a threat at imo, alot more than Atkins. He looks like the type of player that can do something brilliant then mess up 2 mins later but im bored of the same boring that are `safe'.

Lote Tuqiri left Rugby League in 2003 and joined the ARU – after having his contract terminated in 2009, he joined the Leicester Tigers in the English Premiership and then he returned to Rugby League with Wests, seven years after he left and at 31 years of age

Now, he is playing on the wing for Australia in the 4 Nations

I will restate my question – what does this tell you about the depth of the playing pool in Australia?

Every time he had to fill in at centre for Wigan he has been poor and all over the place defensively. He is never a centre in SL never mind internationally.

We have to play somebody at centre at the end of the day and with both Atkins and Shenton looking like they're missing guys like Widdop, Joel Tomkins, Briscoe etc will all be looked at as options to fill in.

I'd choose the first 2 as I believe both would cause plenty of problems attacking the Australian line.

He's rarely had to fill in for us at centre and when he has done it's been part way through a game after shifting from 2nd row where he's been putting one of his lung busting shifts in.

Maybe it's a sad indication of our options but he'd be my choice.

Just for you Barry McKenzie will restate his answer.

Lote Tuquiri got in the side because [size=150 he had a decent season for the Tigpies and Tim Sheens is his club coach as well as the Australia international coach.[/size

I even made the font just that little bit bigger in case you missed it first time round.

We all know the superb quality and depth of RL in Australia.... whatever the competition. As it has been for as long as I care to remember.



Yet if the coach wants Tuquiri... the coach gets Tuquiri.

So, if England had selected a 31 year old on the wing who had spent the past 7 seasons in Rugby Union, you would have the same opinion?

How many times he has had to do it is irrelevant though. Each time he has he has been poor and at fault for tries because he is all at sea in defence, he also cannot pass as a centre and isnt particularly quick as a centre. If it doesnt work in SL it certainly shouldnt be considered for England. At least the likes of Cudjoe, Briscoe, Goulding, Clubb and even Ellis have experience there, Joel has little and has shown nothing that says he would be anywhere near as good as the players mentioned (and that is coming from someone that doesnt rate Clubb one bit). The Australian's would run around him for fun.

If he was good and could potentially do a good job for his country, his age or background wouldnt be an issue to me.

Far more sensible to select a decent player who plays regularly for his superleague team rather than one who can't even manage to get a regular game for his club ....whether he plays in the NRL or not.

I smiled on here a few months ago.. just before the England v France game I think.

As soon as the majority of people heard about little Widdles and they found out he was English it was all 'Quick, sign him up before the Aussies get him' etc etc.

ummm... I don't think we would have been interested. Sorry.


Barry McKenzie is not a betting man but I would wager not many users of this forum had ever heard of poor old Widdles 8 months or so ago.

But because he plays in the NRL (ok..because he is registered with an NRL club) suddenly the bloke is the English version of Billy Slater.


The England selectors really need to sit down and have a word with themselves.

I totally agree. I never agreed with Widdop's selection in the first place and based on what he has shown so far still dont. Various people have selected him in their teams at full back, centre and even stand off based merely on the fact he is a reserve player at a NRL side. I have already said that I dont think he deserves the criticism he has got from some about his performance on Saturday as he wasnt that bad. However by the same token I dont see what he has done to justify the blind faith shown in him by some. He certainly didnt look that great at centre and now some want him to be selected there before bone fide centres that play there week in, week out. Again this is based on what exactly? He is not that quick and not that strong and was beaten time and again there on Saturday. I just cant see what makes him this automatic inclusion that some seem to think he is, he certainly wouldnt be if he played for Wakefield or Salford.

Tomkins
Cudjoe
Briscoe
Atkins
Goulding

or

Tomkins
Briscoe
Ellis
Atkins
Goulding

Or

Tomkins
Widdop
Ellis
Briscoe
Goulding

or

???