OK, it's a bus with a sign on it then. Still, hardly "shafting"
If they were following the Championship players in schools handing out Bulls tickets directly afterwards, there would be a case to claim that. If they had a bus parked outside the ground offering people transport to Odsal, there would be a case. Simply adverstising themselves in a spot another club seem to think they have reserved the sole rights for....no.

In which case there can be no question of anyone "poaching" the fans of your sport. Can there?

Edited for accuracy

Something people need to bear in mind: Odsal is at the very southern tip of the Bradford Met district. Much of the Odsal hinterland is actually in the "administrative districts" of Kirklees and Calderdale - where no Bull is supposed to tread. Even though it is a ten minute walk from Odsal and you are in Kirklees, and much of the Bradford traditional support lives "over the border". This is something no other SL club has to contend with - even Wakey and Cas are in the centre of their (fertile) hinterlands. Leeds of course had Bramley and Hunslet to contend with. They somehow don't seem to have to worry about them any mnore, and do I see anyone on here screaming because leeds might be (quite rightly and properly) trying to attract fans in the fertile rugby heartlands of South and West Leeds as opposed to say Alwoodley? Would there be this complaining if say Leeds sent a bus round Morley and Holbeck and Stanningley and Rodley? What the hell is the difference???

Protectionism never works in industry and commerce. It sure as hell doesn't work in sport. You can't force someone to go and watch their local club (including Bradford) - whatwever the sport.

Quite true. But it appears you can create a "closed shop" (read superleague) to strangle the potential competition.....

Normally the biggest set back to effective promotion outside of Super League is the lack of staff resource rather than lack of finances. As has been mentioned before promotion need not cost the earth. The problem is oftwen though some clubs will only have 2 or 3 backroom staff who spend their weeks donig everything else.

But as an example of how it can be done, on the last game of the season just finished the Dons made a big promotion push to get bums on seats for that game. The main aspects were, banners at key points around the town (which are cheap eough and can be paid for by a sponsor) and stall near the markey on the preceeding Friday manned by everyone from the office, some supporters volunteering their time and a couple of players. This was just a process of handing out fliers to passes by and trying to sell the reduced rate tickets to people who took interest.

The result was, for the last game the attendance almost doubled despite the fact we had already missed out on the play offs and in essence had nothing to play for. On the day, and after a good performance on the pitch, the club auctioned off the shirts 1-17 which had been made as a one off for that game which all went for about £200 each (nice promotion budget for the next venture) and had an offer on the season tickets for one day only (where the club sold more in that day than the previous season). And to boot the club gained a whole database of new and old supporters contact details to feed into the CRM contact list for future.

I'm not saying all of those new fans will be banging on the door next year but if 10% that is a good wedge and its a process that can be repeated for not much money.

The only shame was that it was the last game of the season as if wed had a game the following week I'm sure there would have been a noticable increase, but they had to link this in with the season ticket release.

Yes, of course. Because no clubs have entered or left SL since it's formation

So what has the franchise system done????

Do you disagree that it has protected some clubs at the expense of others ????

Incidentally my comment was made in response to this:



What are franchises if they are not protectionism?????

Do keep up dear boy.

Which is of course why the SL licences are granted for life, and no current SL club is concerned about losintg its licence, and no club outside of SL is gearing up an application to apply for SL, of course.

Oh but hang on...

Why would they stop supporting Saints? still a chance of the GF

Only in the same way that P&R based solely on one seasons results of a team protects some clubs at the expense of others.



I know it was. Hence my response.

Very true that franchising in superleague is not a [icomplete[/i closed shop.

Simple question:

What are franchises, if they are not protectionism.



Or don't you agree with what you origionally said



I am not arguing the rights or wrongs of franchising simply saying they are a form of protectionism.

Not sure what you mean about cas being in a central location, we are a couple of miles from leeds council areas and we are a couple of miles from another county, hardly central.

They are a way of controlling movement between leagues by a means other than the performance of a single team in a single season.



Only to the same extent that "regular" P&R is.

Whilst on the one hand theres is a free market economy, this is no doubt damaging to smaller clubs (which for some reason is ok on here if its a heartland club, which perplexes me as true rl fans should want the best for all clubs not just those in the elite league) who dont have the resources to compete, a fact that will only be made worse if larger club steal fans from them.

The most annoying thing though is that bradford bulls promotion in bradford is rubbish, i lived there for 4 years (left last year) and hardly saw any, there are thousands of people from the asian and student communities that hear virtually nothing about the bulls, why arent they are targeting these people on there own door stop?

Sorry, I don't see the logic in that argument.

I can't see how a system designed to protect teams for three years can be compared to end of season promotion based on finishing top.

As I have already said, I am not arguing the rights or wrongs of either system. Something had to be done to stabilise yo-yoing clubs and financial incompetence. But franchising IS protectionism.

One is for one set period, one is another set period. One is one year, one is three years. In this example.

Depends how far you want to define it. If you want to go that far, then the league structure is protectionism. It keeps clubs in a league with a regular set of fixtures for a set period regardless. You could call that "protectionism" and say the only way to have no protectionism is that all fixtures are ad-hoc arrangements between clubs.

The idea that any club should have a protected territory that no other RL club can recruit from (but an infinite number of other forms of entertainments and expenditure) can is ridiculous. Perhaps we should stick to discussing if that is right or wrong rather than splitting hairs over the definition of "protectionism" in sport.

Thats not quite true though is it?

There are more criteria for entry with franchising that regular P&R. A side that might have gained promotion through one system could be denied under another.

It is not inconceivable that the criteria could be changed to effectively make superleague a fully closed shop and the only time there is "relegation" is when a "developement" club comes along (or Sky say so

)

Which works both ways. A side that could be relegated under franchising could be protected from relegation by "regular" P&R.



If that happens, we'll come back to this debate then.

Actually on reflection that is a fair comment. I was visualising West Yorks in my head. Which given I spent years working in Normanton is a bit embarrassing...

I mentioned Cas and Wakey since you are the two clubs whose situation is most like ours in terms of geographical issues and other clubs (incl Fev, Hunslet, Dewsbury and Batley)
in what might otherwise be one of your hinterlands.

At least your ground is pretty central in Cas - south of Odsal your quickest way to Kirklees is across fields! But yes, you face a similar issue - and I recall from people I know who live in or near Cas that more than a few locals supported Leeds. Same as I recall some folk in the vilages round Fev (who I worked with) supported Cas. And if you live in say ossett who do you support?

Should someone draw a line saying if you live in Rothwell you should support Leeds (I have friends who do...) - or more to the point Hunslet, if you live in Woodlesford you should support Cas and if you live in Oulton you should support Wakey? And you are not allowed to support anyone else? (For non-locals, those three places comprise a single built-up area pretty well in the middle of a triangle of Leeds, Cas and Wakefield.

Its pretty contemptuous of RL supporters to say they should not be allowed a choice of which club to support! And that clubs should not be allowed to make people aware of what they offer? Should e.g. Leeds have been banned from having buses carry the (pretty powerful) champions advertising? Buses that doubless travel through the hinterlands of other RL clubs? of course not!

Precisely - cross the Aire and Calder Navigation and you're in Leeds; head 5 or so miles to the East and you're in North Yorkshire; 12 or so miles to south and you're in South Yorkshire.

I think I'll agree to disagree.



I quite agree that " protected territory" just seems wrong, but what I find distasteful is when the efforts of small clubs are pirated by larger clubs.

ie Small club expends time effort and money in getting into schools teaching and converting kids to RL. Large club rapes the small clubs methods, ideas and efforts then has the cheek to call them their own.

I think Mr Caisley called Keighley's Cougarmania a "disgrace to rugby league" or some such words, but very quickly launched Bullmania as if they had invented it.

Can't do much about it, but it does leave a nasty taste behind.

Fair enough. Why?





Why language such as "pirated" and "raped" ?
Are you saying Bradford should keep out of the territory entirely?

Where we tend to go wrong in these subjects is in thinking that the only competitors RL clubs have for fans is other RL clubs. In reality there are an infinite number of other competitors for the time and money of fans. I can guarantee none of those will believe they should stay out of the territory of any sports club, regardless of the sport and regardless of the level they play at.

Irrefutable argument, as I acknowledged in the previous post. Very embarrassing given that geography is supposed to be easily my "specialist subject"!

good business, fish where the fish are. they aren't trying to poach another SL clubs fans, if Batley fans want to watch SL then this is a great deal for them to do so.

what % of the population watch Batley or these other smaller clubs 1-2%? Thats a lot of people not watching RL that may decide to do, how can that be a bad thing?