you can maintain whatever you like, but it doesnt alter the fact that we actually create players, they dont just fall out of the sky, we need to scout them, coach them, and develop them to make them players.

And if we continue to go for the easy overseas option we wont put as much effort into scouting them, coaching them and developing them as players, so they wont reach their potential and the league will be of poorer quality,

and you are right, Hull may not be a better team this year if they went for an academy product of Fitzgibbon, they more than likely would be though, if they went out scouted, trained and developed a young player in place of a fat waste like Sam Moa or a distinctly average player like Luauki

Hull KR's longterm aim is to replace players such as Galea, Newton, Clinton and Mason with players from their own academy. That is a fact.

Years without any SL income, being ed from behind by previous owners and during that time having an established SL club based in the same city quite rightly and understandably grabbing the best young talent, may sound to some like whinging excuses, but [ithey are valid reasons[/i. Anyone with half a brain can see the gulf in power between those clubs in SL and those outside.

My post in the other thread was more about the hypocrisy of the RFL allowing Tongans and Samoans to be selected for the English national side, whilst stipulating that its clubs select their squads on a nationality basis. In actual fact I support the overseas rules and the salary cap rules but not at the expense of driving the sport back down to semi-pro level or cutting off our nose to spite our face.

Fact is overseas signings have raised the bar over here and many of them (not all) benefit younger homegrown players and the sport as a spectacle in general. There are too many, and quite frankly I do think there'll be too many at Hull KR next year, but whilst the rules allow it, clubs will benefit and hopefully Rovers and other clubs will demonstrate in the coming years that they can continue to thrive in SL without the need for so many imports.

Dont pay any attention to him, his comments about Wigan are fueled by a bitter hatred or a complete lack of knowledge, or maybe both. I do seem to recall 3 Wigan developed players in the dream team squad this week and the 8 players in the squad from last friday who were developed at Wigan. Not bad for a team this guy makes out to be the worst offenders in Superleague.

Double post.

The issue with overseas signings is that it's never a like for like comparison with an English player. To be offered a contract (and a first team shirt) an English player has to be as good at 19 as any available Australian/NZ/islander or whatever. An example of how hard it is to "make it"; Chris Clarkson, who was down to be discarded but his coach begged they give him another year so they sorted something out to allow him to stay at Leeds on a part-time contract.
This "if they're good enough..." is a crock.
It's very rare that any player is better at 19 than they are at 25!! So why would they win out in a competition at 19 with an available antipodean of 25 years?

Dont be mis-informed, check yourself before you post



[urlhttp://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/stats[/url

exactly,

what is also evident is players like Blake Green, 23 years old, 39 first grade appearances, are for some reason judged massively above players like Chaz I'anson, 23 years old 33 first grade appearances,

why are Hull KR so keen to give a shot to unproven young Australians like Green, Dobson, Lovegrove, but no unproven young british players, truth is players like Keith Senior, Lunt, Purdham, Gardner, Kirmond, etc are better than Aussies like Green, Lovegrove, Fisher etc, so the argument about needing them to keep up the quality of the league is just non-sense. The reason Hull KR have gone for overseas players in deeper than it is easier and they arent prepared to deal with the short term pain for the long term gain

When are leeds going to start training Ryan bailey how to play RL ?

i think it was around 2000/2001

They didn't do a very good job then did they

and Cas are playing where this weekend? Oh that's right they're not.

A bit like widnes in the Championship

And yet we have Fax and Sheffield still looking for a GF appearance

They can argue all they want , if their club was in the lower part of the league , they would all be clammering for some SOO players to be brought over , but would take anybody better than they had

4 gf victories, 5 gf appearances, 3cc final appearances, 4 wcc, 2lss, 4GB caps says they did alright, maybe he doesnt pass the the 'Starbug parochial paranoia tall poppy syndrome' test but thankfully there are other ways to measure your quality, like competitions and stuff

You missed out his UFC titles as well

Various Super League winning and one Tri Nations winning coach would disagree with you.

You talk as if they're the same player with just different nationalities. Green's not unproven though, neither is I'Anson. In fact what has been proven so far in in his 30+ first grade appearances is that Green is a capable NRL player with a strong defence, decent kicking game and good decision making. I'Anson on the other hand has looked, at best, out of his depth in many of his.

As for not being prepared to give young unproven British players a chance, what about Welham, Watts, Latus, Taylor, Hodgson, Ratu, Charnley and even your hero I'Anson? You could even include Kirk Netherton, Spavin and Mariano in that list.

What about the NL players we've developed into useful SL players like Murrell, Cockayne & Netherton? What about the big investment we've made in our academy structure both in facilities and players that has yielded some superb results at those levels this year and last? I've seen alot of these lads and believe me there's some super talent there.

Surely signing players like Matt Cook and Scott Wheeldon (both who left their previous clubs because of a preference to overseas players in their respective positions) is giving younger British players the chance instead of average overseas players?

I'm quite happy to admit we're not anywhere near the level of some other SL clubs yet and as I said before, I do think we'll have probably have too many overseas players on the books next year for my liking, but to suggest we don't give young British players the chance and are not interested in doing so is, quite frankly wrong.

He has proven he is an NRL player so well he cant get a regular gig in the NRL and is coming over here to play for a mid-table team.

you are just naming players who have pulled on a shirt once or twice, Ratu has made more appearances for Leeds than You, Latus has made a whole 6 appearances, Taylor 4 in two years, Spaven 2. Lets not forget Ratu cant get a game because of Webster and Taylor plays 2nd row, where you have just signed Willie Mason to go with Galea and Newton, and Spaven is a halfback where you have just signed Blake Green to go with Michael Dobson.
Spaven is 20 he isnt going to benefit from a 23year old Aussie reject coming in and taking his place, if he is going to make it he needs games now in the season he turned 20 Rob Burrow had 41 appearances, Danny Mcguire had 39, Sam Tomkins 50, Kyle Eastmond 50, Luke Robinson 43, Im sure you get the picture compared to Scott Spavens 2.

Mariano is 23 with 3 substitute appearances to his name, if thats a player you are giving a chance to, i dread to see one being held back

Murrell was at Leeds, Netherton played in SL for both Leeds and London. So that leaves Cockayne who played for you in the NLs, so well done in having NL1 players in NL1.
Matt Cook had played almost 70 SL games when he signed for you, he wasnt an untested youngster, he was a bradford first team player, and he wasnt shipped out because of a reliance on overseas players, Bradford have 3 british 2nd rowers, 2 of them their own youngsters who were better prospects. And Scott Wheeldon had played 57 games before he signed for you, he was a super league player not a youngster you have unearthed, you will be claiming Vella next.

so then do it. Give Spaven a chance now instead of giving an unproven Australian a chance, give Taylor a chance instead of getting a third overseas 2nd rower in

I'll agree that I think Lauaki has been average and not a great example of overseas recruitment but Sam Moa is not a fat waste of space, you clearly haven't seen him play very often this season. He has been an excellent signing for us this year.

You're missing the point. You can't just play players every week because they're British; they have to be good enough as well. You compare the likes of Spavin and I'Anson to Eastmond and Robinson like "give em a shirt and they'll be as good". That is absolute cobblers and you know it.

We've been without centres for ages so Ratu would've played most of the year if he'd been fit. He might have got a better go at Leeds had it not been for Brett Delaney.

Yeah Murrell was at Leeds, I'm not claiming him as an academy product, just a good British NL player who's become a SL player whilst at a club who apparently don't give Brits a go



Netherton did play for Leeds, in fact he "pulled on a shirt once or twice"....you see where I'm going with this??

The point I was making was Rovers do give Brits a go, but you need to grasp the fact that they have to be of a certain ability first.

So then go out and find a prospect better than Spaven. It is you who is missing the point that these players dont fall out of the sky, SL quality players arent magicked into existence, they are trained, scouted, developed and coached to become SL quality players. That isnt happening at HKR, we can see this because you arent going out and scouting, training, developing and coaching players to be SL players, you are picking up players Scouted, trained, developed and coached in the NRL because it is easier.

Spaven was your example of a player you are bringing through, you cant then say he doesnt get games because he isnt good enough.

Either you are bringing him through and at this stage of his development that means first team games, or you arent because he isnt good enough.

And if those players arent good enough, thats your problem, go out scout, train, develop and coach better ones, just stop taking the easy option and have the aussies do it for you.

He wouldnt, he would have been behind Smith, Ablett, and Watkins. Ratu was still given more of a chance as the 4th best english centre prospect at Leeds than he has at HKR.


he clearly wasnt an NL player, as you have admitted he was an SL player, thats why he was at Leeds. You didnt pick him up from the NLs you picked him up from SL, you just happened to be in the NLs at the time.
Yes, Leeds had better british prospects so he was let go, he went to Halifax and London in SL before joining you. You are really scraping the barrell to claim a player you signed from his 3rd super league player was a player you discovered from the NLs.

they have picked up a few brits from other SL clubs, so what? Both Netherton and Murrell where also picked up when you were in the NLs, the precedent you have shown whilst in SL is they likely wouldnt have got a shot had they not already been there.

We have better prospects, they're just too young to be thrown in at SL level. Those of the age to seriously be considered for first team action are the scraps of what Hull and other SL clubs left after cherry picking the best talent. Since we've been in SL we've gone out and scouted, trained and are coaching and developing some very good prospects. They're not ready for SL yet though, I fully admit that.



You simply cannot argue with the fact he has not only been injured, but injured during a time we would've used him the most. You cannot criticise a club for not using a player whilst he's injured.



Disagree. If they were SL players in anything other than contract, they would have been playing regular SL grade football - either with Leeds or another SL club. Usually when players drop down a division or two its because they're not currently good enough. The fact they only played a couple of games at SL level suggests that either they weren't good enough at the time (ie not SL standard players), or that their clubs failed to give them the opportunities Rovers have.

So in the meantime go out and find a british player to fill the gap. Its not solely youth prospects, there are other players out there who you can scout, train, coach and develop to SL level. Go out and find a Lunt, kirmond, Senior, Purdham etc

you didnt use him when he was fit either, and certainly not when your first choice backline was fit

you are factually wrong, Netherton played for 3 different SL clubs and Murrell couldnt get in the team not because his way was blocked by an overseas player but because his way was blocked by a better young british player in any of the positions he could play in, just because he wasnt as good as Mcguire or Sinfield doesnt mean he wasnt SL quality, as has been proven, now if you could do the same again you wouldnt need to be signing another Aussie reject like Blake Green

They make our game more exciting (Broadhurst, Miller, Prohm etc.) If the home-grown players are good enough they come through anyway. But (sadly) RL will never be a global game with truely competitive international fixtures, so lets enjoy watching them when they are here.

no they dont come through, because you dont go out and find them, coach them and develop them.

And people would enjoy the top players when they are here, but we arent talking about the top players, we are taking about the NRL reserve grade players coming over here to be first choice because of such appalling development work (not just youth) from some clubs