Keiron by the way has played in 27 internationals.

Many people dont think its as high as that due to the fact that he chose to represent Wales, and played for them in World cups.

Sadly people memories tend to forget Wales and concentrate solely on GB or England.

Cynicism and bitterness. It's the British disease.

an RFL approved nutritionist poisoned him with an illegal substance - hardly a major offence on Cunningham's part.

My only problem with Cunningham is the way he messed Saints and the RFL around in 2002 when he was flirting with rugby union. Made himself and the sport look very bad IMO.

great player though, and rightly will be remembered as Saints best ever hooker, and one of the best of all time in the sport.

Give over. Keiron was offered a shed load of money to play union, it would tempt anyone. The outcome was that he turned them down to stay for less, you can't knock that. The likes of Robinson went strolling off purely for the money and he doesn't get criticised for it, so why should someone who turned them down?

Apart from the 2000 World Cup when he played for Wales there has never been any evidence of him being able to handle the Aussie national team.

He would have been average in the NRL.

Yes and should have been banned for life. UNless of course he was pregnant.

He also never step out of the comfort zone of playing for a very successful St Helens side. That and his lack of effort to play for his country prevent him from being class as an all time great or a legend of the game.

At international level Sculthorpe gained more respect than either Farrell or Cunningham. Whilst he may have played '27 times' in internationals, you'd have to wonder whether his reputation would be greater had he played more often against Oz.

IMO at his best Cunningham is a very good player, and would probably have done OK in the NRL had he gone a few years ago. I agree entirely with him being a Sts legend, but you can't pretend that he's done much internationally at all.

Out of those 27 tests he only played against Australia 5 times though.
For GB in
1999 Lost 6-42
2002 Lost 10-64
2005 twice Lost 6-20 & 14-26

For Wales in
2000 Lost 22-46

Not many games against the number one team for such a long career.

Injury blighted his chances against Aus.

As a St Helens lad with a huge family - why should he have to? He's living the dream for his hometown club.

Don't forget that St Helens were not succesful when KC broke into the team. It's not as if he's riding on the back of others, he IS the "very successful St Helens side".

Piggy Riddel was average in the NRL. If you're suggesting KC wouldn't be able to have out performed him, you work on a different logic than me.

Cunningham had a massive reputation in SL but never really seemed as interested in playing or performing for GB, particularly on overseas tours (this has long been a problem with Saints players e.g. Newlove, Long, Pryce etc). Terry Newton has made more of an impact at hooker internationally in the same period.

IIRC after the drugs affair he wasn't much of a player for a season or two and was being used as a prop. This seems to be glossed over by many Saints fans.

And then there was the whole threat of him being poached by Welsh RU. Why couldn't he just commit to RL? It is unlikely he would have made it in RU at hooker anyway with the game being so different in this position.

IMO Senior has been far more consistent both domestically and for GB. He's still the best British centre by some distance, and has not needed to be spelled for half the game for the past 4-5 seasons.

Senior hasn't played in the front row for 14 years! It's far easier to achieve such longevity as a back.

As a successful saints player, he is only good because the players around him make him look good, so is Long, was Sculthorpe, Lyon, Graham and Roby now and this will soon be the case of Wheeler, lomax and Eastmond etc. All of them are average at best and only look good because of the class around them. This is fact.

Fair post. I think what stops the same sort talk about Senior (and this is only my opinion, mind), is that, although he's been one of Britain's top two centres since what 2002(?), I don't think a lot of people rate him as highly as they did the likes of Newlove and Connolly. We've also had a lot of high quality overseas centres in SL over the last 10 years, whereas we've tended to do better at producing our own hookers and Cunnigham has been the best of that bunch.

Why though? Senior is better than both of them. Especially at international level.

Senior wasn't better than Newlove.

Newey scored 36 tries in 27 matches spearheading our title charge in 96, with his winger Sullivan scoring bagfuls year after year. Senior is a cracking player, but Newlove was a cut above in his pomp.

I wouldn't argue that Senior has done more at international level, but Newlove obviously couldn't be ar*ed with GB (which is what makes him fall short of being a legend in my eyes).

Getting him on the pitch abroad was difficult, but whenever Newlove played against the Aussie he caused them trouble.

I remember him giving Ettinghausen (sp?) a right headache in '97 even though our team was so far on the back foot they may as well stayed in the changing rooms. Top try scorer in the 95 world cup. there was also the time we were desperate (94 ashes I think) to get him back from injury toplay a part in the series - IIRC he came off the bech to score?

I have to say, the likes of Newlove, Connolly, Offiah, Davies and Robinson we're streets ahead of the british 3/4s that we've had in the 00's

i agree,and so did the welsh ru at the time.they wanted him to play inside centre.i dont know if it would have worked not knowing that much about union,but that is what i was told.

Sorry but there is no way Senior is better than either Newlove or Connolly in their "pomp"

Didn't Newlove have a fear for flying in an aircraft, hence no overseas tours.

Correct
"You ain't putting me on no plane, fool!"

Statistically speaking, Senior takes the ball into contact, and makes more tackles per game, than many forwards as he isn't interchanged. He has been playing as an extra 2nd row forward for the last 3 years.

What did Connolly ever do for England or GB in his "pomp"? Senior's test career pishes over his, and the same could be said of Newlove, but that is more debatable.