Ok Mr Picky.

There have obviously been a number of times we have beat the Aussies in a test match, but when it comes to winning a series, we have won jack.

It was so long ago that ‘Stevo’ was in the team FFS, and you were probably a twinkle in your Granny’s eye

.

Brilliant and accurate assessment.

This was always inevitable (and predicted) when the number of clubs in SL was increased. More clubs chasing the same number of top class players has only one result. Add in that more clubs are paying the full cap than previously and it`s bound to happen.

What`s actually more important is our attitude to it. In some ways it`s a positive; as a competition SL is fgenerally more open now that it has ever been. Though from an international perspective we are no longer having games featuring vast arrays of international players (Saints and Leeds excepted) so England aren`t getting the same intensity as previously when the top players were more concentrated.

Walters had an impossible job following Potter, made even more difficult by the fact they had no pre-season games amongst many other distractions. Now they have settled in, and the weather gets hot in France they will go well and will defo be in the play offs.

Not quite. Having the best players spread more evenly through the competition means that each such player has to work harder to achieve. It's much harder to look "good" in a team that's not so good.

I think its quite natural that in the early years of the salary cap (combined with stricter quota rules), the standard of the traditionally higher placed clubs would drop.

Instead of being able to sign up the best players, the focus is now on the coaches to train up the more modest youngsters and implement more effective playing strategies. I expect the standard to start creeping up over time.

Agree fully.

The early stages are going to see a lower standard. As clubs start to improve coaching and using their youngsters more and more due to no threat of relegation the standard should improve. Its a long term project IMO.

The standard of coaching is appalling at most SL teams and this is holding players and teams back.

Warrington have realised too late that appointing an explayer with little/no coaching experience isnt going to do you favours, but for me their season has already been wrecked.

Hudersfield and Hull KR have shown that with a decent coach, run of the mill players can improve their basic skills dramatically and therefore become a significant threat.

Saying that i think a lot of the current blowouts are down to 3 games in 8 days for teams.

Wigan fans always cry wolf at the salary cap
Hull fans are saying the competition is weaker when in reality its them who are weaker, due to having a caoch in charge who is out of his depth.

and don't forget the players!!!

They have a responsiblity as well.

I agree with wellsy the standard has dropped and significantly. 4/5 years ago we had 3-4 clubs challenging for the title, and another 1-2 who could launch a bid for it, that was nearly half the league, now we have two who are comfortably better which is apparently the league being "more competitive"

Knowing this The only argument you could make against this being evidence of the dumbing down of the league would be if those two clubs were comfortably better than they were 5 years ago, as a leeds fan, who has just seen his team crowned back to back champions, I would still argue we aren't as good as we were 5 years ago

The recent Leeds hudds game was 2nd v 4th and bar a top
Quality 15mins around half time for Leeds, the fundementals from both sides were very poor.

This is an obvious effect of an sc designed purely to hold back the top clubs, that is all it was meant to do and all It can do, stop the top teams improving past a certain level leading to a levelling down of the league until we have a league full of mediocre clubs

And anybody thinking this sc will bring through rafts of quality new young British players is simply deluding themselves, we have Many many many more overseas players than we had pre-cap and we aren't seeing clubs bring through lots of quality youngsters, and certainly not lots more than previously

It's time for a complete rethink on the cap

The drop in standards at Wigan, Bradford, Hull and Warrington in the last 3-4 years has been very alarming, with no real threat coming from elsewhere. Catalans had their brief moment in the sun reaching Wembley and having a decent tilt last year, but realistically they were never going to win SL last season. HKR and Huddersfield have been hyped up a little bit so far this year, but can you realistically see them winning either trophy?

Saints and Leeds are the benchmark and have developed good standards in SL in the last 3 years, but until the competition improves across the board, even they will be significantly weaker than their NRL counterparts. Saints and Leeds have both had good coaches (Australian/Kiwi) and players over the last 3-4 years which I think is very significant.

Anyone who thinks the standards in SL aren't dropping needs to have a look at the GB/England performances and the lack of British world class players which have developed in the last 10 years. Our competition is filled with mediocre British players, over the hill aussies, and players from the southern hemisphere who aren't good enough for the NRL. All we are developing are more and more average youngsters who are coming into a game which is all about pace, power and attrition rather than the higher levels of skill we saw 10+ years ago.

The difference between us and the aussies isn't that they are any different to us when they start playing, it's that at every stage of the game in Oz they have a much better quality of coaching. Goes right through from the kids to 1st grade. Until we get that right we'll never produce top class players in large numbers

The games on sky this year have been mostly cack because they keep showing the bottom sides,Wigan,Warrington,Bradford are on every week,Cas have been on once!

Why has it taken since 1982 for the penny to drop?

Does anyone REALLY think the clubs will not take the easy option of purchasing"talent" rather then the hard work of developing talent and thats not just players but ALL aspects of the game.

The Aussies/Kwis/South Sea Islanders/PNG etc etc are just human beings no more no less.

I am sorry if I keep repeating myself but until the ENTIRE game in this country, at all levels, is revamped and the club only mentality removed then there will be little if any improvement

What changes would you suggest?

So would you prefer to go back 4 or 5 years, to the ‘halcyon days’ of the ‘big four’?

Basically all you want to do is let the wealthy clubs ‘poach’ the cream of the other clubs & carry on the cartel. How can the ‘smaller’ clubs possibly compete if the cash rich clubs are allowed to take this stance?

The quality of RL may have dropped a little, but many games are too close to call, is that a bad thing? Maybe next time you watch Leeds play Salford a little voice in your head might say ‘’I think we’ll just sneak it’’ Not the usual ‘’Two easy points’’

Instead of having a rethink regarding the SC, why not have it regarding picking the England squad. Why not have a cap on the number of players from each club, because the tried & tested method of picking the ‘big’ clubs players has failed miserably.

Jesus, we're bad enough as it is, the last thing we should be doing is making it harder for ourselves.

Why?

What have all the so called 'stars' achieved? Look at the last world cup, dire, along with the past 30 years. Time to try something different.

that was in effect 6. or half the league. half the league being in with a decent chance sounds pretty healthy to me!
by becoming better run,maybe?

also when was the last team to win anything with a squad of players 'poached'[for poached read bought or signed in fair competition from others rather than a homegrown spine supplemented by some quality elsewhere?

probably not, shocks have always happened

because it would be idiotic! why on earth would we leave out the best man for that position just to meet a pointless self imposed quota?

why not pick a whole 17 of props too, that would be different too

What absolute nonsense.

Whatever your thoughts are about how bad Bradford were, to claim Wire played 'absolutely shocking standard of Rugby' is just plain dumb.

Very good discipline, good offensive play, few mistakes, some creative tries, okay, some room for improvement in defence, but that often happens in games where you are 30 points up.

How any team, no matter who they are playing, can score 58 away from home, yet still be classed as shocking is beyond me.

This is the point. We need more competitive games as that is the only way our players will improve. Having our top players play in a handful of competitive games each season (for decades) is what has seen us fall so far behind the Aussies. Now we are starting to address this.

....agree totally. As an example, players at the best teams rarely take the risky option because they know another chance will be along in a minute. This results in very athletic players but...wingers who rarely take a man on the outside, centres without passing skills and half-backs who pass or run but struggle to mix it up. Highly competitive games increases the speed of decision making and changes the balance of risk attached to each decision.
How many times in internationals have our players looked short of ideas...directly as result of wrongly assessing the options and at too slow a speed.

Typical.

Most England players are chosen on what club their at, everyone knows this, it's time for Tony Smith to look elsewhere as these 'stars' are getting found out over and over again, and are not as good as everyone makes out, it's alright when theyre playing in a team of good players, as soon as they play internationals they are exposed.

It's not working, everyone knows it, for example would Keith Senior play for England if he played for a club such as Wakey or Quins. I think not.

Cheers Smokey for your retort, however, you follow a club which has had great success over a number of years, and especially of late. I on the other hand follow a club which has struggled on, but appears to finally be getting its act together. We are poles apart in our views, and that’s life.

But with regard to the Salary Cap, I still don’t understand how increasing or removing it will affect the quality of Super League games or our International chances.

Also, the issue of selecting players from the top clubs, it’s like re-revisiting a failed theory. These players may stand out in a club team brimming with talent, but when they put on an England shirt it’s just a cash bonus, an added sweetener for playing for a top club. The majority of the squad who holidayed in Aus. should be binned off, how many chances do they deserve?