No worries, didn't think you were having a pop. I think you're right that we don't have the income streams yet to be viable and a big factor in that is the stadium. You're right that it is early days and there was a lot of investment required to improve on and off field facilities. So losses at the beginning are no surprise. Still more to do but we're in a much stronger position with both so hopefully we can start attracting more fans and more corporate spending. Koukash repeatedly says he's in it for the long term and if he wants a return on his investment he needs to be. He's made the right noises about his role being to resurrect the club but then to make it as close to self sustaining as possible. Let's hope he can do it

Quote ="garyhulsefan"Do you reckon this is related? www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... ew-6857690'" He had a 3 month exclusivity arrangement from March......has there been any further releases on this project? I am puzzled as to how Salford only turned over 2.3 million? 1.6 from Central funding means that 700k is their entire income from tickets, shirts and sponsorship? 13 home games at 4,500 average at 12 quid a ticket and there's your 700k.....something isn't adding up here.......MediaCity are paying to be on the shirts aren't they? Surely they've sold a fair bit of gear in the shop? As for the losses being sustainable, so long as he's prepared to write cheques then they will be OK. Personally I think 2015 will be a definitive year for them......

Quote ="garyhulsefan"Do you reckon this is related? www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... ew-6857690'" He had a 3 month exclusivity arrangement from March......has there been any further releases on this project? I am puzzled as to how Salford only turned over 2.3 million? 1.6 from Central funding means that 700k is their entire income from tickets, shirts and sponsorship? 13 home games at 4,500 average at 12 quid a ticket and there's your 700k.....something isn't adding up here.......MediaCity are paying to be on the shirts aren't they? Surely they've sold a fair bit of gear in the shop? As for the losses being sustainable, so long as he's prepared to write cheques then they will be OK. Personally I think 2015 will be a definitive year for them......

Central funding wasn't 1.6 million per club last year nor the year in question

How much was it then?

I'm sure a guy who has his business interests also has an accountant who can make a 5 million loss into an interesting deduction on his tax return.

This year that ends with Decembers payment was 1.26 million. Off the top of my head I can't remember what last years was, but it would have been slightly lower then this

Not seen the accounts but there is probably a bit of a "getting all the bad news out of the way now" type scenario, whereby assets have been written down etc as a result of the purchase from admin. This way next year's accounts are only likely to be an improvement and everyone can say that Salford are "on the up". It may also be a bit of shock and awe to get the Salford "support" woken up to the fact that they need to get more people through the turnstiles/season tickets sold.

Obviously results like that aren't sustainable unless Koucash wants to bankroll them for ever more.

Bingo

I have no particular interest of axe to grind with Salford.

However, if this guy is super rich and enjoying being part of the RL family (whatever that really means), he will be better off indulging in our sport as opposed to football for example.

That level of loss could be acceptable and written off if his wealth is sufficient.

I don't think the money is as much of an issue as the season ticket sales, which are the barometer of commitment from supporters.

I'm not totally surprised by the slow ST sales at Salford.

I don't think they've adjusted for the change of location.

I am a Koucash fan, but I think he was a little naïve at the claims he was making early on and the expectations he continually expressed. It was made to look like a circus by them falling short on the field.

I believe that he loves rugby league and being a part of it. Now's the time to get into the slow and steady mode.
I'm informed that he's made investments into the local grass roots system. If he wants to chuck money about, perhaps plans like investing in the facilities at somewhere Eccles ARL (just over the road) would be a good way to go, creating a real attraction for the local kids to join the minis/jumior section. The community need to start to love rugby league as much as he does.

Did he get anywhere trying to buy Oldham?

As coach of the junior team that my son plays in at Eccles I couldn't agree more


Not much actual investment yet. They've lent players to help with training sessions and events at all the clubs in their patch and are building links that were broken during the Tarry era. Supposed to be some funding from the Under Armor sponsorship for local juniors but not seen the detail yet

PS - Eccles Roosters are now called Salford City Roosters following their merger with Irlam Hornets

£5.2m is probably chicken feed in relation to the potential profits to be made from the development of the ship canal in that area.

RE THE SHIP CANAL
Nobody but Peel Holding will benefit from that.
Unless you live in the area, you do not know how powerful that company is.

There's discussion over on the Saints board about signing local youngsters and the competition we (traditionally) get from Wigan and Wire. Apparently Salford have come into very strongly in this area.

I'd heard earlier this year that salford had approached a couple of WArrington amateur teams with regard to setting up a working arrangement at junior level.

The 'loss' to Koukash will be used to offset any income elsewhere. Wealthy people can do would always rather lose money in their own enterprise than pay that same cash in taxes. It's only unsustainable if the losses exceed profits from everywhere else.

The reality is that sports teams are almost without exception dreadful financial investments. Many professional sporting teams are propped up by benefactors - in RU as well as RL. What the financial results show is that in reality the economics of Salford (not to mention other clubs) will almost never stack up on a standalone basis. Take away benefactors and both codes would wither.

I agree but there aren't many sports clubs of any sport can continually lose £5m+ per year so obviously that number will have to come down. Most RL benefactors put in tens to a few hundred thousand per year rather than millions.

Unfortunately I can't see Salfords finances drastically changing without a drastic change in the stadium. Either Koukash/Salford to own it outright or virtually own it through very favourable terms from the current owners.

Let's face it, they need 3 times the current income.

They need 3 times the current crowd.
Marwan Koukash regards the club as work in progress. He will get the club where he wants to get it in the end.
Its going to take a bit longer than he originally planned though.

Maybe he will maybe he won't. It'll take more than just determination otherwise London would be SL champions.
It will definitely take a long time, whether it's longer than he originally planned I don't know. I'd sort of hoped all his bluster when he took over at Salford was just for publicity and that he didn't actually believe half of it.
I wish Koukash and Salford all the best but I hope both he and Salford fans realise it will take years and maybe a decade or two.
It took Caddick & Hetherington nearly a decade to get Leeds onto a sustainable, secure footing. And that's a club who had an already significant support, an above average team, a bigger youth pool, and crucially their own stadium.

I would guess at this stage that the Red Devils are about another 5 years from reaching their aim.

I suppose it depends what their aim is, if it's to become an "average" mid-table team, a Hull KR for instance, I'd probably agree that 5 years is about right.
If its to be a regular top 5/6 team, I'd say they've around 10 years.
If it's to become a Wigan or Leeds who are regular top teams AND financially sustainable, then I reckon they've around 15 or so years off. Assuming continual focus and owning or getting a better deal at the stadium.

But then I'm hardly an expert, so what the hey. Good luck Marwan.

I think their aim at the moment is year on year play off positions and see what happens from there.
If any club can continue to get in the play offs year on year it does attract sponsors which eases the financial burden on the good doc.
Saying that though we do know that money is not a problem for the doc.
Trying to become self sufficient must be the aim of every club.

yep you mentioned Hull kR, with the increase of Sl grants this year we will finally be at break even on our current crowds of around 8,000. Salfords number one goal has to be to engage with the community and build its fanbase. Simple reality is they need more paying customers.
Obviously winning helps a lot but it is by no means the only part of the equation. They have a decent stadium, a decent brand and a rich backer so lets hope they can put the final pieces together. No reason it cant be done in 3-5 years if done well. Look at how the Bulls and Wolves brought in the fans in the early days.

I am just wondering what fanbase has been eroded? They never had one to start with.

tl;dr

Marwan found his cash yet?