That's not true. I'm 'down south' and can assure you am very interested in RL. Granted i spent my first 25 years in wigan but living down here, my wife is now interested in RL and i have converted several members of her family. Will be taking 12 people up to the quins v wigan game.

Didn't realise that Rovers had been sold and moved 100 odd miles away from East Hull. Must have missed that one.

Quote ="Widnes 'till i die" 'Expansion' has almost ruined our game!!!'" Do you have any evidence at all for that claim? BTW, Companies House website has this piece of evidence of business failure: Quote Name & Registered Office: WIDNES RUGBY LEAGUE FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED GRIFFIN COURT 201 CHAPEL STREET MANCHESTER M3 5EQ Company No. 02820081 Status: Dissolved 01/08/2008 Date of Incorporation: 20/05/1993 '" As a supporter of the game in general, I'm very pleased to see that Widnes are now apparently operating on a much more stable financial basis and I'd like to see them back in Superleague, but maybe you can demonstrate how the financial failure in 2008 could be blamed on "expansion"? ============================================= EDIT: "Widnes 'till i die" I've just seen your post last Friday on the first page of this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=458818&start=0 Second EDIT: The posting that I was referencing has now been suitably edited so I've withdrawn my comment on it.

Quote ="Widnes 'till i die" 'Expansion' has almost ruined our game!!!'" Do you have any evidence at all for that claim? BTW, Companies House website has this piece of evidence of business failure: Quote Name & Registered Office: WIDNES RUGBY LEAGUE FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED GRIFFIN COURT 201 CHAPEL STREET MANCHESTER M3 5EQ Company No. 02820081 Status: Dissolved 01/08/2008 Date of Incorporation: 20/05/1993 '" As a supporter of the game in general, I'm very pleased to see that Widnes are now apparently operating on a much more stable financial basis and I'd like to see them back in Superleague, but maybe you can demonstrate how the financial failure in 2008 could be blamed on "expansion"? ============================================= EDIT: "Widnes 'till i die" I've just seen your post last Friday on the first page of this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=458818&start=0 Second EDIT: The posting that I was referencing has now been suitably edited so I've withdrawn my comment on it.

Maybe he means that clubs like Widnes who have kept the game alive for well over 100 years and when people come up with ideas such as Superleague - unfortunately at a time when Widnes were in a lull after unprecedented success -they were simply cast aside in the name of expansion. And teams who he mentioned have either come and gone, been propped up by the authorities or broke the rules to stay in Superleague.

The financial failure in 2008 can be blamed partially at least on Widnes throwing all their eggs in one basket to get to the riches of the promised land.

Clubs like Widnes, Leigh, Fev, Keighley and any other flatcap clubs will be here long after the expansion experiment is completed.

Start your gnashing of teeth now: The RFL has said that one NL1 club would get promoted based on the criteria you mentioned. They have not ruled out promoting another club to SL with any conditions set other than playing in the championship.

So TO could be in SL in 2012, as long as we see expansion of the number of clubs in SL or two up two down. TO and Catalans in SL would be low/mid table sides but could put in a good game.

It would be good to have 2 French sides in but wouldn't TO have to reach a Grand Final in order to apply? I'm sure the RFL have had to state that they are under the exact same criteria as all other clubs or are you just finding double meanings in their statement

.

Quote ="Scorpions for SL"The debt is very small compared to this club. Surley they must be finished if Harlequins are news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10237268.stm'" OK my little cottage burning troll, I'll bite. David Hughes has publicly announced that he will continue to underwrite the club. Ian Lenegans shares, as has been publicly stated, are Ian Lenegans problem and if he can't shift them, then it is up to him to do something else with them. So, Harlequins Rugby League limited are making a loss, a loss that is fully underwritten by one benefactor who is happy to do so. Harlequins Rugby League do not have an overdraft....how many other clubs in SL or the Championship can say they [uchoose[/u not to have a line of credit? London Broncos went south because they didn't pay the tax man........but as Harlequins Rugby League do not owe 1 penny to anyone...again I ask, how many clubs in SL or The Championship can boast zero debt? As for your beloved scorpions.......running on an average crowd of double the skolars is not going to kick down any doors in the near future and neither would arriving at the top table with a team of mid table CH1 players. I agree that the crowds at the stoop are terrible, but if Quins continue to stay debt free, keep David Hughes healthy and expand the game, getting more kids playing it and increasing the number of amateur clubs, they will be given a licence next time. As for you my little holiday home arsonist...I applaud the achievements of the Welsh division of the RL masterplan...but before you cite failure, I would suggest 2009 in bridgend wasn't your finest moment and the falling gates at wrexham aren't looking too rosey either...... As for the guy from Widnes who called London RL a failure........please name widnes players capped by GB/England in the last 3 years......or better still, compare them to the 2 cockney lads capped who were about 9 yrs old when SL started......London RL is working, it just isn't attracting fans.....which is 2 points in the licence process BTW......yes, the broncos went bust....but people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.......we have Mr Hughes, you have Mr O'connor.......both have been responsible for resurecting clubs from near colapse. Widnes will be in SL next time around. Even the RFL haven't got the bollox to leave them out.

Quote ="Scorpions for SL"The debt is very small compared to this club. Surley they must be finished if Harlequins are news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10237268.stm'" OK my little cottage burning troll, I'll bite. David Hughes has publicly announced that he will continue to underwrite the club. Ian Lenegans shares, as has been publicly stated, are Ian Lenegans problem and if he can't shift them, then it is up to him to do something else with them. So, Harlequins Rugby League limited are making a loss, a loss that is fully underwritten by one benefactor who is happy to do so. Harlequins Rugby League do not have an overdraft....how many other clubs in SL or the Championship can say they [uchoose[/u not to have a line of credit? London Broncos went south because they didn't pay the tax man........but as Harlequins Rugby League do not owe 1 penny to anyone...again I ask, how many clubs in SL or The Championship can boast zero debt? As for your beloved scorpions.......running on an average crowd of double the skolars is not going to kick down any doors in the near future and neither would arriving at the top table with a team of mid table CH1 players. I agree that the crowds at the stoop are terrible, but if Quins continue to stay debt free, keep David Hughes healthy and expand the game, getting more kids playing it and increasing the number of amateur clubs, they will be given a licence next time. As for you my little holiday home arsonist...I applaud the achievements of the Welsh division of the RL masterplan...but before you cite failure, I would suggest 2009 in bridgend wasn't your finest moment and the falling gates at wrexham aren't looking too rosey either...... As for the guy from Widnes who called London RL a failure........please name widnes players capped by GB/England in the last 3 years......or better still, compare them to the 2 cockney lads capped who were about 9 yrs old when SL started......London RL is working, it just isn't attracting fans.....which is 2 points in the licence process BTW......yes, the broncos went bust....but people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.......we have Mr Hughes, you have Mr O'connor.......both have been responsible for resurecting clubs from near colapse. Widnes will be in SL next time around. Even the RFL haven't got the bollox to leave them out.

Quote ="Eastbourne Warrior"That's not true. I'm 'down south' and can assure you am very interested in RL. Granted i spent my first 25 years in wigan but living down here, my wife is now interested in RL and i have converted several members of her family. Will be taking 12 people up to the quins v wigan game.'" OK, i'll rephrase (i was being flipant btw) there are so few rl fans down south, and the RL marketting is so poor, and the media is so biased, that RL clubs will not be able to survive down south. Do you agree? Quote ="Redchemic" Quote ="BroncOnIon"As a supporter of the game in general, I'm very pleased to see that Widnes are now apparently operating on a much more stable financial basis and I'd like to see them back in Superleague, but maybe you can demonstrate how the financial failure in 2008 could be blamed on "expansion"?'" Maybe he means that clubs like Widnes who have kept the game alive for well over 100 years and when people come up with ideas such as Superleague - unfortunately at a time when Widnes were in a lull after unprecedented success -they were simply cast aside in the name of expansion. And teams who he mentioned have either come and gone, been propped up by the authorities or broke the rules to stay in Superleague. The financial failure in 2008 can be blamed partially at least on Widnes throwing all their eggs in one basket to get to the riches of the promised land. Clubs like Widnes, Leigh, Fev, Keighley and any other flatcap clubs will be here long after the expansion experiment is completed.'" Couldnt have put it better myself, Well said. Quote ="BroncOnIon" "Widnes 'till i die" I've just seen your post last Friday on the first page of this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=458818&start=0 Just two days after the appalling events in Cumbria. Absolutely unbelievable that anybody, especially one who claims to be a rugby league supporter, could be so crass. Don't bother replying, I'm not interested in talking to you.'" I couldnt give a toss whether you are interested in talking to me or not, because after your ridiculous insinuation, i feel i have to defend myself, else people may get the wrong impressioon of me. Rather than speculating wildely why dont we look at the facts. 1) In a thread, which didnt contain one single mention of the Cumbria shootings, an anti widnes troll started spouting his anti widnes rubbish that has being debunked several times. I couldnt be bothered to reply again to the fool, and explain why he is wrong, so i put the 'shoot poster' smilie (which i have now changed to the 'roll eyes' smilie, just incase the original post would cause any unintended upset). 2) The 'shoot poster' smilie is often used by posters to mean something along the lines of 'pi$$ off you troll', its supposed to be lighthearted and doesnt represent actual bad feeling towards the poster. 3) I put the 'shoot poster' smilie, to represent exactly what everyone else uses it to represent (as explained above), it didnt even cross my mind that there had recently been a tragic shoting. It was just a smilie, it wasnt used, with knowledge that it may cause any offence, and it wasnt definately wasnt supposed to be some kind of sick joke, if thats what you are implying. You then decided for some unknown reason to announce to everyone that i am some kind of sick d1ckhead who is either making a joke out of the tragedy, or was using it, with the knowledge that it may cause offence. This is not the case. I would appreciate it if you didnt reply to any of my posts again, i dont appreciate it when people make false accusations about me (especially when they announce these in a public place such as a forum) so i really dont want to converse with you in the future Im sorry to derail this thread, but i felt i had no choice but to defend myself after his insinuation. (If broncoonion, after reading my explanation, edits out the attack on me, then i will be able to edit out my defence)

Quote ="Eastbourne Warrior"That's not true. I'm 'down south' and can assure you am very interested in RL. Granted i spent my first 25 years in wigan but living down here, my wife is now interested in RL and i have converted several members of her family. Will be taking 12 people up to the quins v wigan game.'" OK, i'll rephrase (i was being flipant btw) there are so few rl fans down south, and the RL marketting is so poor, and the media is so biased, that RL clubs will not be able to survive down south. Do you agree? Quote ="Redchemic" Quote ="BroncOnIon"As a supporter of the game in general, I'm very pleased to see that Widnes are now apparently operating on a much more stable financial basis and I'd like to see them back in Superleague, but maybe you can demonstrate how the financial failure in 2008 could be blamed on "expansion"?'" Maybe he means that clubs like Widnes who have kept the game alive for well over 100 years and when people come up with ideas such as Superleague - unfortunately at a time when Widnes were in a lull after unprecedented success -they were simply cast aside in the name of expansion. And teams who he mentioned have either come and gone, been propped up by the authorities or broke the rules to stay in Superleague. The financial failure in 2008 can be blamed partially at least on Widnes throwing all their eggs in one basket to get to the riches of the promised land. Clubs like Widnes, Leigh, Fev, Keighley and any other flatcap clubs will be here long after the expansion experiment is completed.'" Couldnt have put it better myself, Well said. Quote ="BroncOnIon" "Widnes 'till i die" I've just seen your post last Friday on the first page of this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=458818&start=0 Just two days after the appalling events in Cumbria. Absolutely unbelievable that anybody, especially one who claims to be a rugby league supporter, could be so crass. Don't bother replying, I'm not interested in talking to you.'" I couldnt give a toss whether you are interested in talking to me or not, because after your ridiculous insinuation, i feel i have to defend myself, else people may get the wrong impressioon of me. Rather than speculating wildely why dont we look at the facts. 1) In a thread, which didnt contain one single mention of the Cumbria shootings, an anti widnes troll started spouting his anti widnes rubbish that has being debunked several times. I couldnt be bothered to reply again to the fool, and explain why he is wrong, so i put the 'shoot poster' smilie (which i have now changed to the 'roll eyes' smilie, just incase the original post would cause any unintended upset). 2) The 'shoot poster' smilie is often used by posters to mean something along the lines of 'pi$$ off you troll', its supposed to be lighthearted and doesnt represent actual bad feeling towards the poster. 3) I put the 'shoot poster' smilie, to represent exactly what everyone else uses it to represent (as explained above), it didnt even cross my mind that there had recently been a tragic shoting. It was just a smilie, it wasnt used, with knowledge that it may cause any offence, and it wasnt definately wasnt supposed to be some kind of sick joke, if thats what you are implying. You then decided for some unknown reason to announce to everyone that i am some kind of sick d1ckhead who is either making a joke out of the tragedy, or was using it, with the knowledge that it may cause offence. This is not the case. I would appreciate it if you didnt reply to any of my posts again, i dont appreciate it when people make false accusations about me (especially when they announce these in a public place such as a forum) so i really dont want to converse with you in the future Im sorry to derail this thread, but i felt i had no choice but to defend myself after his insinuation. (If broncoonion, after reading my explanation, edits out the attack on me, then i will be able to edit out my defence)

If the RFL want them in, they will be in. FACT.

They move the goalposts so much, nothing they say can really be trusted.

Drifting slightly off topic here, but bow come you do not post on the Widnes site?

The guy's never even been to Wales.


Ok, i guess your right... who needs fans, or a history, or an identity, or a town/city that is behind the team, or success, when you have can base everything on how many players have played rep rugby in the last 3 years


The difference between the two clubs is that Widnes used to be successful, they went bust trying to spend buy an SL spot, they didnt go bust becasue they have, and never have had, a support base large enough to support a professional team. I dont think there is anyone, who cannot see a future for a Widnes, in SL with good crowds, not reliant on a money man, underwriting the loses. Lets face it, that is never going to happen to the Fulham-harle-bronco-quins.

I've only been to a handful of games over the last few years (not living near enough to widnes atm), so only see them play when they are on sky on a thursday. Because of this, until i move back home, i dont feel i can contribute to most discussions, so i tend to read the forum but only post on it occasionaly.

I'm suspicious of posters like that. We had a problem with fake posters on another board, the existing widnes fans weren't playing up to certain peoples expectations so they invented one or two.

Hey, you started it. Widnes are a great club, steeped in history and trophies......I am not knocking them, just pointing out that London isn't the failure people say it is. Attendances are 2 points in the licence application process.........2 points we failed to get last time, 2 we will fail to get this time, but still, London RL is contributing to the game and has produced 2 cockney internationals in recent times.

...I'll stop you there,,,,,enough said




I believe London averaged around 5,600 in year 1 of SL........so not too shabby. I also believe that other heartland clubs have averaged worse average attendances for SL than London ever have.....even this year, when the gates have shrunk a further 20% Quins will have to go some to match the average of Halifax in 2003. As for going bust trying to buy something.......maybe widnes was the early pointer to the global recession

Putting all your eggs in one basket and coming out with nothing is a lot worse than trying to essentially launch a new sport in the London area.......and the debt that sank the Broncos in 2005 was pretty much a direct result of the bearded wonder thinking he had bought the London Monarchs and he would fill wembley in 3 years.


see......it's the old flatcappers crystal ball syndrome again. If this, when the other.......nothing concrete, just supposition. As for needing a moneyman...where would Widnes be now if it wasn't for Mr O'connor? He has bankrolled your club.....he is one of the main reasons you will get in next time......

FulhamCrusaderBroncoQuins, to give them their correct name, will get a licence next time based on the development of youngsters, the fact they are bankrolled by a benefactor and therefore, stable, play in a great RUGBY stadium and are responsible, both directly and indirectly for the growing strength in the SE RL leagues......

....If you feel the need to point the finger of blame/worry about why Widnes might not get in next time, try looking a lot closer to home.......Wrexham Crusaders went tits-up in year 1....it took us 11 years...Salford are stadiumless and as for the terrible twins of Wakey/Castleford.....surely they can build one stadium between them.
I know it's easy to pick on London.....they have terrible crowds and no history, but guess what, after being bounced to many different grounds over 30 years, changing names. owners etc like women change shoes they still have 2,000 + fans who roll up to pretty much every game. Even when we were on the worst losing streak in the clubs history, we have the core support that makes us believe we can build a decent fan-base......we never give up, we will always support our team and we have NEVER finished in a SL relegation position....so regardless of Sky buying us our place in SL1.....we now deserve to be where we are with the most English squad in this years competition.....

All of which is true. But irrelevant to WTID, who is a Salford fan. You can draw your own conclusions as to why he registered the user name he did.

No they won't! Fax average for 2003 = 2,976 , Quins average for 2010 (so far) = 3,011. I make that a difference of 35.

It's funny how people only ever quote 2003 when talking about Fax and choose to ignore our other 7 years in SL. That was a year when we had cut things down to the bone to clear a rolling historic debt which had been ignored for long enough. Relegation was a certainty from day 1. I would estimate our average attendance for our SL years would be around the 6,000 mark. If anyone disputes that I will try to dig out all the figures but at present I can't be d.

Finally, just for fun, if you removed our 2 lowest home gates of 2003 and recalculated the average it would make 3,218. Who were these 2 gates against? You got it, London.

Well now you've written "fact" in capital letters after your opinion, then that's certainly true. That's the law, isn't it ?

If you cannot comment on Widnes who is allegedly your club, how the blinking heck are you qualified to discuss Harlequin business which I would imagine you know even less about than your beloved Widnes working on the basis that if you have only seen them a handful of times in the last few years, you must have seen the Quins even less.

I dont know how people are still taking this trolls bait

so we did summat right

You certainly did! I was there and remember it well. I had business in South Wales on the Monday morning so decided to travel down on Sunday via Brentford to see the game. Our last victory in SL.

So far…

Speaking of which I was most disghusted on Sunday to view my crusaders quins ticket and find the match listed as Harlequins super league xv vs crusaders! No wonder the books don't balance if they can't count the number of
players.

Richie Myler: Widnes lad who came through the local service area and the was brought through the Widnes academy system and into the first team. Then poached by Salford and poached again by Warrington.



As far as our youth structure is concerned:
After the preliminary stages of the 2010 Vavoline U18's Academy, the league has been split into three sections - based on points difference.

Our U18’s have just been announced as 'A Status'. This puts us in with the best of the SL club academies. All done from the Championship. Harlequins are in group B, well done!

Group A
St Helens +200
Wigan Warriors +168
Widnes Vikings +74
Leeds Rhinos +72
Hull Kingston Rovers +20
_______________
Group B
Warrington Wolves +6
Wakefield T Wildcats +2
Castleford Tigers -18
Harlequins RL -36
Bradford Bulls -40
_______________
Group C
Hull FC -115
Salford -139
Huddersfield -234
Catalans
Crusaders


Our U16’s, who also compete with SL club academies, have gone unbeaten.



[urlhttp://www.widnesvikings.co.uk/article.php?id=1906[/url

So? We are still above 4 heartland clubs and the only club in France. Pretty good if you ask me.