The RFL arent like any other business though are they? Just like the clubs arent like any other business. This is sport, not selling beans. If you dont think that the RFL should be more transparent when it comes to the licence issues and expansion clubs, then your entitled to your opinion. I disagree.

Who has suggested this ?, apart from you of course

They wouldnt, they may simply wish, like most normal business that their negoatiations are privae rather than having 'the buck passed' to them by justifying anything by saying 'sky wanted it'

but that would justify the inclusion of X club, it wouldnt provide you with any further information than saying "As with any new venture, financial projections are more subjective but the club has demonstrated financial stability during its progress through the National Leagues. The club has built good relationships with commercial partners and TV channel S4C offers exciting opportunities. There is supportive independent market research for Super League in South Wales, although inevitably this can only be fully tested by the club’s actual participation in the competition"

I dont think there is a need for any more information to be released, to be honest the more i hear from you the less i think you actually do.

You know this as a fact , or is it because Smokey says so ? ,

Who owns SKY ?

Who owns News corp in OZ ?

Who owns the Melbourne Storm ?

Why would the RFL have to mention anything about "Sky wanting it"? If the RFL decide to expand the game, as they would get more TV money, then thats the RFL's decision isnt it? The RFL could say " we want to expand the game"


Thats doesnt really say anything does it? The have built up good partners with a tv station that they wont be able to get there games shown on, their financial projections are subjective due to not being in business that long, and there has been independant market research done to show that SL might have an audience so they are going to take a chance.

The assessment of their bid doesnt really stack up that great does it?

Worrying ain't it.

However the meeting in 2005 which "felt the heartland wouldnt be able to sustain that number of Super League clubs" was the SL clubs, in 2005. Which makes the rest of this statement nonsense. You are trying to attrribute a conclusion from SL clubs in may 2005 to the RFL in July 2008.

really? their player pathways and youth development have proved on a par with any club promoted to SL. More Crusaders developed welsh players represented Crusaders last year than Hull KR developed players represented Hull KR. The Stadia like Cas, Wakefield, St's, Salford and HKR was accepted on their plans.


what the Hell, no it clearly doesnt, simply put subjective is personal opinion and objective is the opposite, i.e not influenced by personal opinion. It is a nonsense to say that you couldnt come to a personal subjective conclusion through stringent and detailed analysis of the facts presented any more that you could come to an objective conclusion in the same way. Stringent and detailed simply describe the depth of the analysis, it doesnt infer the objectivity or subjectivity of the analysis either way. Especially when the stringent and detailed analysis applies to a business plan which by definition is subjective.

im sure steve o'connor fully understands the box they ticked was the box which allowed them to apply. Not part of the decision over the best of those who applied. Part of a PQQ if you will.

Really? Wakefield have struggled from pillar to post since they got a franchise, havent yet got their stadium sorted and have been subject to two winding up orders, and have introduced a similar amount of developed players to SL.

no, it is crazy to suggest that a stringent and detailed analysis would prevent the RFL from admitting the club they thought had the best potential.


Because they didnt do this, and had no reason to do this, and even less to commit themselves to doing this.

I completely agree that the expansion of the league should be based on the strength of the clubs applying. That if we had a club like Crusaders looking to move up, they should spend 2/3 years in the lower leagues preparing for SL rather than pratting about pretending they are earning promotion through the lower leagues. That should have applied to Widnes over the last three years in the same way.

We shouldnt be aiming to replace clubs, we should be aiming to grow the league, when a club is in a position to compete, grow and expand the league they are admitted. Thats it.

What I cant agree on, and what i think is a very strange conclusion you have drawn, is that strategic importance shouldnt have been part of the judgement on the 14 clubs who should have been admitted. Because that is what it was, a part, not the entirety,

They already have.

It tells you the basis on which the RFL made its decision doesnt it? which is what you wanted isnt it?

Or are you simply arguing the RFL should just confirm your speculation regardless?

Its ok, they already have, The RFL runs the sport, on their high salarys. Sky however are by a massive, massive amount the biggest customer of the sport. To expect them not to hold a massive sway is, im afraid, delusional.


And Paul Caddick, Garry Hetherington, Eammon McManus, Ian Lenegan, David Hughes, Bernard Gausch, Simon Moran


At club level, all bar two sports. RU and Football. As a whole all bar three sports, RU, Football and Cricket. Its not worrying at all.
Ten years ago when the old blazers were still running the sport it was, since then we have had pretty much uninterrupted growth. Im not too worried about that.

No, of course im not suggesting they are a team of 15 year olds. I leave that sort of nonsense to you. Are you suggesting the likes of Elliot Kear, Lloyd White, Gil Dudson et al didnt come through the crusaders player pathways? were they just magicked into existance?

Have they? Then why have you posted the assessment of the Cetic bid and not just posted a link to the RFL announcing that Celtic were in as they wanted to expand the game - this thread would be much shorter if you had.



Where's the conclusion to the assessment? Other than - Yup you are in, which they could have done without releasing anything or, going through the bid process.

Quote ="a.n Other"Have they? Then why have you posted the assessment of the Cetic bid and not just posted a link to the RFL announcing that Celtic were in as they wanted to expand the game - this thread would be much shorter if you had'" this is the kind of random delusions i am taking about. The RFL stating they want to expand the game, isnt the same as the RFL stating they will let in crusaders regardless to expand the game, however much you wish it was. Quote Where's the conclusion to the assessment? Other than - Yup you are in, which they could have done without releasing anything or, going through the bid process.'" its on the RFL website. here for the clubs who were admitted www.therfl.co.uk/licensing/super_league and here for the clubs who werent www.therfl.co.uk/licensing/championships more detailed analysis on the clubs own bids was sent to the clubs.

Quote ="a.n Other"Have they? Then why have you posted the assessment of the Cetic bid and not just posted a link to the RFL announcing that Celtic were in as they wanted to expand the game - this thread would be much shorter if you had'" this is the kind of random delusions i am taking about. The RFL stating they want to expand the game, isnt the same as the RFL stating they will let in crusaders regardless to expand the game, however much you wish it was. Quote Where's the conclusion to the assessment? Other than - Yup you are in, which they could have done without releasing anything or, going through the bid process.'" its on the RFL website. here for the clubs who were admitted www.therfl.co.uk/licensing/super_league and here for the clubs who werent www.therfl.co.uk/licensing/championships more detailed analysis on the clubs own bids was sent to the clubs.

So if Crusaders , Or SWS , sign a RU player at 19 , he comes through their player pathway , but if HKR sign a RL player at 19 he doesn't come through their player pathway , is that your argument ?

Very poor

Quote ="SmokeyTA"this is the kind of random delusions i am taking about. The RFL stating they want to expand the game, isnt the same as the RFL stating they will let in crusaders regardless to expand the game, however much you wish it was. '" So its you being delusional saying that the RFL have done something when they havent. The paranoia of being inside the walls of Red Hall must be getting to you. Quote ="SmokeyTA" its on the RFL website. here for the clubs who were admitted www.therfl.co.uk/licensing/super_league and here for the clubs who werent www.therfl.co.uk/licensing/championships more detailed analysis on the clubs own bids was sent to the clubs.'" Thats no different to what you have continually posted. There is no conclusion to the assessments other than, these are in, they are, so there is no point them being released IMO. Obviously the ones sent to the clubs i presume would contain this info.

Quote ="SmokeyTA"this is the kind of random delusions i am taking about. The RFL stating they want to expand the game, isnt the same as the RFL stating they will let in crusaders regardless to expand the game, however much you wish it was. '" So its you being delusional saying that the RFL have done something when they havent. The paranoia of being inside the walls of Red Hall must be getting to you. Quote ="SmokeyTA" its on the RFL website. here for the clubs who were admitted www.therfl.co.uk/licensing/super_league and here for the clubs who werent www.therfl.co.uk/licensing/championships more detailed analysis on the clubs own bids was sent to the clubs.'" Thats no different to what you have continually posted. There is no conclusion to the assessments other than, these are in, they are, so there is no point them being released IMO. Obviously the ones sent to the clubs i presume would contain this info.

you havent answered the question, simply avoided it and posed a different one, answer it, and pose yours and i will answer it.

You are saying my delusion is the RFL have said they want expansion, but this is different to them saying they will admit Crusaders solely based on expansion? wierd.

So in a decision making process, to decide which clubs are in and which are out. What other information are you expecting to be released other than the decision making process used, the clubs who are in and the clubs which are out, and the reasons for that?

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He also is the man who took the game in the UK from something like morris dancing to a professional sport with a massive market share of TV viewing figures......unless you really want to go back to the good old days......sharing a commentator with It's a Knockout?

That would be a massive market share of [usatellite[/u TV viewing figures. In absolute terms of viewer numbers, I doubt if there is now 10% of the audience for RL.

so you think more people watch SLE now,than watched the regal trophy,floodlit trophy and the challenge cup in the bad old days ?.

own the Melbourne Storm , a club that although has come under recent scrutiny is an expansion club , and has progressed in a similar way that Myself and others would be happy with the Crusaders to do the same , it has been properly financed all out in the open

I have no doubt some will now provide evidence to the contrary

Yes Sky have given the game millions, however at the same time they have removed at least 2 million from the viewing figures for any one game. Thats excellent for the growth of the game....not. If they want expansion to work, then they need people to be interested in the game. If only 5% of the 2 million got seriously interested thats another 100,000 fans, which is generally more than now attend a round of SL fixtures.

I wasnt around in the good old days, not old enough to remember viewing figures anyway but.. 2 million?? surely that cant be right.
Maybe for a cup final or something..

I think it is the case that those you have named were supporters of rugby league,or played the game and created their own club ( Gary Hetherington ) and they found themselves being further involved,as oposed to the RFL finding the right people for the sport.
Still,a Super League of half a dozen clubs shows real progress since additional funds were provided to clubs via television in the nineties.

I'm pretty sure Challenge cup rounds used to get between 2 and 4 million, but I'm sure someone will put me right. They were certainly alot more than 100-200,000 they get on Sky