Shaun Johnson managed both. We have become so used to mediocre HBs we make excuses for a performance that was below ordinary.

didnt rate him in the world cup either.

I actually thought Johnson's performance was hit and miss against Australia. There were moments of brilliance, as you would expect, but I thought his decision making on the last tackle was iffy, and he was a little over-keen (particularly in the first half) to get the ball wide too early in the set. With more composure NZ could have racked up a bigger score. He is a fantastic player to watch, though.

I would drop Westerman for Lockers and drop Ferres and bring in Whitehead to the starting 13 with J Tomkins going on the bench.

I thought SMith played well and don't know what he did wrong TBH. Having a go for a bad drop goal just smacks of looking for a reason. He made the difference for me, tries from 2 of his kicks and great hand so Sam could put Watkins away.

Sam did look iffy under a couple of high balls, but the one that just bounced before the dead ball line wasn't his fault for mine. I don't know what else he could do, there was no way he could have caught it with his foot out.

IMO we got dominated in the tackle hence there tries from dummy half. We need to get men in the tackle and hold players up before we put them to the floor to slow the PTB down, if not we'll get mullered.

ALSO LINE SPEED FFS!!!

The Aussies picked a smaller, more mobile pack. NZ were too big and too mobile for them. I am not sure our big buys (esp. the Burgess lads) are mobile enough and the Aussies may dominate us in the pack due to extra mobility. I think back to the late '70s when the little Widnes pack used to run the season long dominant, huge Bradford Northern pack off the field in the end of season games played on dry grounds and think too many are presuming we will dominate in that area.

Maguire gets the very best out of the Burgess brothers - they play a style that suits them. England don't have the team to do that. As a result they both looked very ordinary to me. They will have to up their game significantly if they are to have the impact we need them to have to win on Saturday.

Under estimate Australia at your peril, this is still a team of high quality players that if they gel will cause England some issues.

The Burgess twins look good in the Souths pack because that pack is better than the England pack. Not so much the style as the individuals in it.

I think all the team will have to up their game and I don’t think anyone is under-estimating the Aussies.

They’ll be up for this game as losing would be an embarrassment.

Souths pack had S Burgess and Ben Teo helping the other two Burgess brothers. But more importantly for me had Isaac Luke directing them. Throw Roby/McLlorum and O'Loughlin into that pack and we look a lot stronger.

In saying that I thought George looked good as usual against Samoa but wasn't at his absolute best. Tom is still abit more inconsistent but has the size we need IMO.

I'd love to have seen an England pack including Sam Burgess, Roby, a fully fit Lockers and a mentally stable Gaz Hock this Sunday! If we'd have had that I think I'd be going in to a game against Australia for the first time in my lifetime expecting to win.

There's an awful lot on James Graham and a potentially half fit Lockers on Sunday. The Burgess twins are dangerous but they don't have that aura about them just yet.

IMO we'll be fielding the weakest pack we have for some years.

I picked NZ to win by 12 as a result of their dominance up front and the Aussies tiring in the last 25 minutes as a result. The reality was that the Aussies actually tired visibly from about the 45th minute......if the English pack can dominate them AND IF THE AUSSIES HAVEN'T BLOWN ENGLAND AWAY INSIDE 25 MINUTES, then I can see England winning this game and keeping the Aussies out of their first major final since 1954.

Given that it would have been expected for Samoa, New Zealand and England all to bring big packs to this tournament, the decision by the Aussies to not try to counter this with their own monsters does seem strange......but as I have said elsewhere, write them off at your peril.

Oz by more than 20.

I think this game and Tournement will turn out to be a nightmare for Australia, they'll throw it all at England on Sunday and lose, leaving them with a dead rubber against Samoa.

Australia will not take England on down the middle, they'll go wide early and kick long often which will play into the hands of Watkins, Hall, Tomkins and Charnley.

I think they'll use a superior, quicker back riw and backline to destroy us. Assuming he plays, GI to score a hat-trick.

I have Australia to win by 14 points, based on England's defensive line speed being poor v Samoa and the mobility of the Australian back row. I believe they will base a lot of their possession on either good tactical kicking (hugging the touchline and chasing well) or constant use of GI entering the line.
That said, I'd not be stunned to see the English Pack literally rampage through the middle.......as I said, the first 25 minutes are what England need to survive to have a chance.

England's defensive line speed was poor in the second half against Samoa, because they'd taken so much petrol out of the tank turning the ball over in the first half.

IIRC didn't England have to defend something like eight more sets than the opposition? Cut that out, and you'll have more energy to defend with.

What's the status on Cherry-Evans? Hopefully he plays, because he doesn't scare me with the ball in hand and frankly he's a walking gap in the defensive line that you can aim your forwards at all day.

Evn if England get a big advantage up the middle, its no easy thing to score against Australia out wide. Whatever combination England pick the Aussie backrow is simply superior.

Defence on the line for England has to improve massively. Standing flat-footed on the line against an Aussie team with a lot of structured plays is a recipe for disaster - particularly if it causes players to panic and rush out of the line. Also, if England take a dummy from acting half against Samoa, Cameron Smith is going to tear us a new one if we don't improve.

DCE has a "minor hip muscle tear" and has a chance of playing against us, otherwise it's Ben Roberts at 6.

Agree with you though AG, I think he's really overrated. Him and Hoffman were a real weak link on that side.

Ben Roberts is playing for Samoa isn't he?

He is, I think he meant Ben Hunt.

A rampaging England pack assumes we get parity or more of the ball. When Oz are up for it I've seen them starve the opposition of the ball. If they retain the ball they'll totally humiliate our big front rowers and leave them gasping for air.

If we play with our heads there is no reason the above should happen. This is not a vintage Aussie side, the key for us is ball retention, not giving away silly penalties and a solid kicking game. If we can achieve all that we have a chance - slim I would agree but a chance of turning them over

Scott and Hoffman were really quite awfull against New Zealand, you're doing the English players a real disservice to suggest that they're so inferior to this current Australian back row.

I'm not suggesting that Farrell and Tomkins are the best back row pairing we've ever seen but they certainly have a lot to offer going forward and in Farrell case at least his defensive game is superb.

What did Bird do that was so much better than Westerman?
Bird gave at least 2 midfield penalties away and got brutalised on a couple of occasions when trying to effect a tackle. On the other hand Westerman made some hard yards through the middle and was close to being at the top of the tackle count.

Some on here are still suffering from an inferiority complex where Australia are concerned, while there's been solid justification in the past I simply don't see the reason for it with this version of Australia.

You are right in what you say but its also quite understandable and good in a way that people are not getting too carried away with what looks to be a slightly ajar door that the Aussies have left open.

The very few times in the past 30 years i have been watching RL this has happened we have had it slammed in our faces at quite force.They will be smarting at the defeat at the weekend and the prospect of being the set of players to lose out to us and miss a final in a million years will be enough to ensure they are at it this week.

Still plenty enough talent to beat us in this Aussie side.we will have to be at our very best,nothing less and hope things go our way to get the win.

Agree with those last two posts.