Led to believe Andy Coley was asked to be involved and declined the invitation. Also agree about Houghton, very good player and would have liked him to be involved in the Knights.

Quote ="BigRob"icon_lol.gif Yeah ok. I must have missed that thriving Scottish domestic competition that consistently supplies Super League or even the Championship with Scottish players? Or the flourishing national team as evidenced by their excellent recent results? Or the Scottish team in Super League, Championship or Championship 1? Or even a pro Scottish team in any division whatsoever? Is there even a semi-pro team? The Scottish development officers I speak to don't seem to think so. You talk of me being absurd and then compare Scotland to England or Australia! Since you appear to disagree, do you think that Danny Brough playing for Scotland, despite being born, raised & lived in England his entire life, is going to advance Scottish RL development significantly? Given rugby league's limited resources do you think that RL should be concentrating on Scotland or on places with a far higher chance of successfully developing a competitive RL playing nation?'" sport.scotsman.com/rugby/Glasgow ... 6705808.jp The fact that you are scoffing at a developing nation is so indicative of the attitude that has left us in such a weak international position. Nobody was trying to compare Scotland to Australia in terms of playing strengh, but they are not something to 'concentrate' on or not, this has nothing to do with money or resources. The fact is that several players who have committed to Scotland and played just a couple of months ago, have now been named in an England squad. I think there are some players who featured for Ireland in those squads too. Their actual background, as well as whether or not they will 'develop Scottish RL', is irrelevant. Apart from the fact that they now don't qualify for England for an unspecified period of time, these players have committed to Scotland and should play for Scotland. This is an international side representing a nation, it's not some sort of development tool, it's not something to be toyed with and dismissed and belittled in the way that you are doing. Your attitude has really irked me because it's so typical of RL in the past, and it's something that needs to change if we are ever going to make any progress as a sport.

Quote ="BigRob"icon_lol.gif Yeah ok. I must have missed that thriving Scottish domestic competition that consistently supplies Super League or even the Championship with Scottish players? Or the flourishing national team as evidenced by their excellent recent results? Or the Scottish team in Super League, Championship or Championship 1? Or even a pro Scottish team in any division whatsoever? Is there even a semi-pro team? The Scottish development officers I speak to don't seem to think so. You talk of me being absurd and then compare Scotland to England or Australia! Since you appear to disagree, do you think that Danny Brough playing for Scotland, despite being born, raised & lived in England his entire life, is going to advance Scottish RL development significantly? Given rugby league's limited resources do you think that RL should be concentrating on Scotland or on places with a far higher chance of successfully developing a competitive RL playing nation?'" sport.scotsman.com/rugby/Glasgow ... 6705808.jp The fact that you are scoffing at a developing nation is so indicative of the attitude that has left us in such a weak international position. Nobody was trying to compare Scotland to Australia in terms of playing strengh, but they are not something to 'concentrate' on or not, this has nothing to do with money or resources. The fact is that several players who have committed to Scotland and played just a couple of months ago, have now been named in an England squad. I think there are some players who featured for Ireland in those squads too. Their actual background, as well as whether or not they will 'develop Scottish RL', is irrelevant. Apart from the fact that they now don't qualify for England for an unspecified period of time, these players have committed to Scotland and should play for Scotland. This is an international side representing a nation, it's not some sort of development tool, it's not something to be toyed with and dismissed and belittled in the way that you are doing. Your attitude has really irked me because it's so typical of RL in the past, and it's something that needs to change if we are ever going to make any progress as a sport.

When did Brough last play for Scotland as he cannot play for England within two years as i understand it. I though he last played for Scotland in October 2010 so cannot play internationally until october 2012 for anyone other than Scotland

If you think I am belittling Scotland then I apologise because that was not my intention. My intention was to point out where Scotland currently are in development terms. Which, sadly, is they are nowhere. Obviously there is some good work being done, there always is, by dedicated people in Scotland but the national squad is populated with English & Australians not good enough to make it in their "home" country's team and sadly very few actual Scots. Danny Brough playing for England instead of Scotland is going to change sod all in terms of Scottish RL development, the massive glaring weakness in Scottish RL is the lack of a quality domestic competition in which to develop young Scottish players. Then add in the football and Union competition and I can see very little over which to get excited with Scottish RL. And that isn't going to change any time soon. Until a quality domestic competition is thriving in Scotland (or there is some pathway from a quality amateur scene into Championship or SL clubs) then Scotland will remain as it is.

Danny Brough does little to nothing for Scottish RL but could be an asset for the English national side.

Micky McIllorum is someone with great potential, and you will get nothing but 100% from him. His defence is his best asset, and his attack and distribution is always improving.

Also shows that Eastmond won't be in rugby league for much longer unfortunately.

I know what you're saying, but like I stated this is nothing to do with getting 'excited', directing resources or anything like that. Regardless of the benefit to either nation, Brough played for Scotland and therefore should not be selected for England. George Best and Ryan Giggs would have benefited the England team, that doesn't mean they were able to select them just because the nations they were committed to weren't as strong. That's not how international sport works. The fact that Brough was born in England is irrelevant. Regardless of the strength of the domestic competition and the composition of the team, Scotland has as much right to eligible players as England or Australia, so do all the other RL playing nations. We can't just pretend they don't exist or dismiss them as irrelevant because they aren't as strong, and if we continue to do this we will get nowhere.

I don't think Ferres will be a surprise to Cas fans. He has been excellent for us. Fair play to SM for not just going for the "big names".

Spot on , once you decide where you want to play , that's where you stay

Baffling selections at Bradford, the same for England.

The RFL may be thinking wtf have we done if he takes somebody like Ferres into the 4n.

I'm extremely surprised (From a Bradford pov) that not one of Langley, Scruton or Lynch got into either squad.

I said this on another thread but is relevant here...

as a Trinity fan I am distraught that 6 of the players listed in this squad began their careers at, or have recently played for, Wakefield... if one adds Gareth Ellis to that list and other peripheral players like Darryl Griffin it clearly shows the extent of the mess that the recently departed owners of Wakefield Trinity left at the club!!

Where did you finish last year? where the year before? and lets not kid ourselves, you're no great shakes this year either. Its not baffling whatsoever.

If Ferres gets in, then I personally would have had Langley ahead of him.

Maybe Lynch's commitment to the international game over recent years has more to do with his exclusion than his on-field performances? Hasn't he made himself unavailable twice in recent years, once for minor surgery and once to get married?

Ferres is a better player than langley, lynch and scruton should have been in.

If the rfl were that bothered about team selection they would have sacked smith for selecting sykes, the worst player to wear an england shirt in recent years.

not disagreeing about Lynch BUT which props would you leave out to accommodate them.

ATEOTD you cannot have a squad of 50 or 60 as it defeats the object

It's a difficult one. If the next world cup wasn't so close I would say it was time for Morley to move over and get a younger prop international experience in time for the next major competition, but I think Morley has one or two more seasons at the top left in him.

I agree Lynch should be in the squad though. Excellent offloader. Ferres in a good asset to the squad. He works hard, scores quite a few tries and is versitile.

As for Hull, surely you have to win a game in SL before any of your players can be considered

The one name i'm really happy to see in there is Micky McIlorum. He's coming on leaps and bounds at Wigan and is as tough as they come. He really gets stuck in and hurts people in defence and his attack is improving game on game.

He'd form a very good combo with James Roby imo and even if in short stints would carry on that high energy style that Roby brings to the side. It's an area of the side thats becoming pretty strong for us again with guys like McIlorum, Lunt and Houghton pushing through to put pressure on Roby.

absolutely spot on, great post!

its attitudes like that which keep our game from growing and reaching our potential as an international sport!

its rugby league so the rules are never followed, the rlif are pathetic. recents examples are jarryd hayne, australian debut november 07 v nz, missed out on the aussie squad for the world cup so played for fiji in 08, then in 09 when he found his form again was picked for nsw and australia.

or fui fui moi moi, played for tonga in 06, then nz in 07, missed out on nz for the 08 rlwc so then took for the rlif to court in order to play for tonga again. the courts ruled that the rlif's laws said you can switch countries once within a 2 year period (which was a new rule again) so he would have been eligible for tonga should they have progressed to the semis, then in 09 he played for nz in the quad nations.

the rlif are a disgraceful organisation who simply do not understand how to run and grow an international sport!

This is a TRAINING squad. It is not a squad that is going to be playing at the end of the year. This is about furthering the development of the younger players and the players that have shown potential in stepping up with the right training.

As stated on Boots'n'All, people like Peacock and Morley getting to train the likes of Liam Watts will bring on the future of the game rather than having to rely on 30+ yr old players playing long minutes against some top mid 20's Aussies and Kiwi's.

The comment about Welham going straight in to the Elite squad I can understand when someone like Atkins is being dropped into the Knights squad however maybe looking at it that the Knights are going to need players in there that can further develop others is what SM is aiming for from Atkins while Welham and Cudjoe can further develop at a higher intensity. There are people like Shenton, Clubb, Briscoe and Ferres all looking at an outside back position, these players will not all make the squad later on this year but it at least gives SM an idea of where each of them are at.

As for those that didnt make it, maybe SM has seen enough of them and feels their development is going very well at club level and they would not benefit that much by being taken away from club training for three training camps.

I like the majority of youth but a sprinkling of mature heads to aid the development in both these squads. It shows we are taking the World Cup seriously and shows some thought has gone into it to try and develop players now rather than just hope certain stars are in form come game time!

the squads should be selected by a committee of 4 or 5 selectors (inc the current england coach)

The actual squads for the Quad Nations and other events I would assume are selected by more than just one man. He has a team of people he will sit and discuss but ultimately he is the one that gives out the game plans and he knows which players will play out his game plan the best.

Australia may have a selection board and the coach just works with what he is given but he is usually given the same players as he would have selected himself so no great dramas. Here we have so many good players that SM wouldn't know which ones he'd get given. Australia have alot more exceptional players which makes their coaches job of using what he is given so much easier than what SM would get given.

The coach picks the players he thinks are the best for the job , if they fail , he gets sacked , all of you out there suggesting " this player is better than that player , he shouldn't be in , he should be in " go out , get your coaching badge , find a team , have a go at it

Then you might realise why he is the England coach , and you are not



If you dont think you're up to that , try ' reffing ' , then you'll relise how ' easy ' it is



Armchair coaches

Something I did actually do, got the badge the same time as Andy Last, unfortunately for him he ended up having to coach retards while I got the pleasure of coaching the Kingston Amateurs!!!!!

It really isn't easy but as much as you have at stake in the pro game at least you know your players HAVE to turn up every session, you can plan to have group sessions, one to one training, forwards and backs you even have the luxury of being able to have a light contact game with an under 20's side. The amateur game allows you none of those and some teams struggle to get 5 players down when it is wet and windy.

Then not to mention it is still winter rugby and there are very limited number of floodlit pitches for training. The expense of hiring an all weather pitch for 5 people to have a pass around is one sure fire way to get yourself in debt.

So no coaching is not easy but I'd sooner be picking and coaching at the top than having to struggle through at the bottom.

Like yourself I bit the bullet and got the badge , not easy as you say , I even missed a NFP Grand Final because of it

Point being though is SM has ' earned ' his chance whereas the vast majority of armchair coaches havent , and would be much worse

Yes SM has earned it I give him all the plaudits, he got a rough stick at Bradford, his selections may have been a bit out there but he had his reasons and he seemed to be the only one putting his hand up for the England job.

I like the look of both squads considering the aim of them and it is only people reading too much into these selections and probably seeing the word 'squad' makes people think its final... If SM wants to he could pick a completely different team at the end of the year than what is in either of these squads. He wont but he could.