Because, as Saddened pointed out, you've got to take into account the social aspect. RL is viewed as a minority sport anywhere south of the M62 thanks (in part) to the fact that the people in charge of things (media etc) usually are southern, and have usually gone to public school (see bottom of my sig) where RL isn't exactly high profile.

For example take the Wigan v Leeds game a few weeks ago. It was the biggest sporting event in the country that night and there was no mention of it on the BBC news at 10, or even on that sportsday programme on the BBC News Channel despite finding time for a piece on disabled curling.

We usually don't help ourselves, but this is the kind of thing we're up against.

different time slots?

sky charges more for ads during RL than union.

sky makes more money for ads during RL games than union games

sky pays union more than league

thats not sustainable.

ill repeat sky charges more for ads during RL than union..

MORE

And then pays RL less, so are you agreeing with me or not?

as ive said, the situation isnt sustainable.

which sport has a more solid basis?

RL, union has no viewers.

itll work itself out in terms of tv dollars eventually thats my point.

RL is viewed as a minority sport because lots of people don't have Sky Sports cos it's so expensive and the RFL effectively sold ALL RL to Murdoch.

If more than just the odd CC match was shown on terrestrial TV RL's profile would rise. A little less b1tch1ng about non-"heartland" non-"traditional" clubs who have the temerity to try and join in would help RL's image a bit too.

So there are some public schoolboys in the GP! You make it a class war and you'll never make headway down south. Leave ENGLISH union to the metrosexuals by all means, but don't criticise them for it. Instead of whining what the media and the south doesn't give you, meet them halfway. Be less parochial and less judgemental and get some RL on terrestrial TV because until we had Celtic Crusaders in S Wales, I'd pretty much forgotten there WAS another code of rugby than RU.

I agree, and you wont find a bigger supporter of non-heartland clubs than me, but it's incredibly difficult to expand the game when RL is constantly under-reported in the media, and it wasn't RL that made it a class war.

yeah its RL that made it a class war

It's really all about perception. RU is the higher profile sport in the UK. Why such a poorly constructed sport get any media time at all is beyond most people on here but it does. It is partly a class thing, partly a regional thing but RL is always presented as a niche sport.

Sky aren't as discriminating as the rest of the media but even so RL is probably still considered niche by them - along with Speedway, NFL, Wrestling and Darts - all of which get plenty of coverage on Sky and good viewing figures as well. However RU now has (thanks largely to other media outlets) a wealth of household names, a well known sponsor (Guinness) and a strong (in comparison with the sports above) international profile. It can use this to bring all parties to the table to bid on its TV rights. RL can not. Superleague is a Murdoch created concept and it's hard to think of anyone apart from the BBC taking enough of an interest to want to buy into it in the same way.

I accept the point about how much revenue RL and RU could generate based on the viewing figures but when it comes to the crunch would Sky let a sport like RU go to one of it's rivals? No they wouldn't because losing a sport with the profile of RU would be seen as a massive blow to them. Note I say 'seen as', it's the how RU is perceived in the media and subsequently by the public. This is why it gets a bumper TV deal and RL does not.

Those of us on these forums are used to seeing viewing figures like the ones in the OP. But I bet, if we are truly honest, we were all surprised (albeit pleasantly) the first time we came across them because of RU's 'national' image. I know that if I showed any of my non-RL supporting mates these stats they would be surprised. Most people in this country think that RU is a massive sport in Australia, so much so that when England beat the Wallabies it's presented as something akin to winning the Ashes in cricket. And when you point out that Aus RU has no professional domestic league, only 4 professional teams and viewing figures that make Quins attendences look decent they are genuinely taken aback. And while the perceptions continue in this way RL could have every Sky viewer tune in for Superleague and it still wouldn't mean they get a TV deal to match RU.

Shocking really, but that's what the media is like.

good post

perceptions change

the nrl will be in a place in 2013 where union in australia and even NZ wont matter

the whole game - SL included is going through a massive growth phase

the fact that more people watch club RL than union in england says RL is a big sport in england.

its inevitable it will get good tv deals off that

The nice one to note is that a national league game pulled in 100k less than barcelona,now how much do they pay for the rights to the spanish league and nothing to the national league clubs????

Sky sports 1 usually pulls in treble sky 3

I suppose the reason the union games are dropping is the fact fans have switched off due to the rule changes,as if you check at the start of there season they have very healthy veiwing figures

very good post.

Does anyone have any stats for the average superleague viewing figures vs the average yawnion guiness premiership viewing figures? it hardly makes sense looking at the Leeds vs Bradford, and Saints vs Wigan viewing figures (which will be some of the largest of the season, I imagine), comparing these with two corresponding Guiness Premiership games (which may be well above or below the average), and then assuming that this is typical of the difference between SL and GP viewing figures.

www.barb.co.uk/report/weeklyTopProgrammes? use this link to mooch about in

www.barb.co.uk/report/weeklyTopProgrammes? use this link to mooch about in

Easy way is to scroll down to sky sports on the left hand side and click any week to veiw

cheers, that website is really good.

The first match to appear on ss1 is on w/e 11 oct 09 and they pull 291k and 191k

week after 190k

235k

w/e 235k

w/e 22 nov 185k

w/e 6 dec 190k

w/e 13 dec 195k

w/e 24 jan 2010, 213k,136k

w/e 31 jan super league appears with 282k

w/e 7 feb sl 197k

w/e 14 feb sl 282k sl 158k

w/e 7 march sl 230k union 140k

w/e 21 march sl 173 k

w/e 28 march sl 282k

w/e 4 april sl 307k sl 189k


All the above are on sky sports 1 but most of the live union games are on sky sports 2 which tends to have a smaller veiwing audiance but to be fair to the union games it holds up around the 200k mark dipping down to 130k which is similar to super league

Sky Sports 3
w/e 28 Feb 2010
000's
1 WWE LATE NIGHT SMACKDOWN (FRI 2200) 165
2 LIVE SUPER LEAGUE (FRI 1930) 112
3 LIVE CHAMPIONSHIP RUGBY LEAGUE (THU 1929) 61
4 LIVE PREMIERSHIP RUGBY UNION (SAT 1730) 59
5 WWE NXT/#WWE NXT EP 1 (THU 2531) 38
6 SEVILLA V ATHLETIC BILBAO-LIVE (SUN 1755) 36
7 WOMENS GOLF (SUN 1001) 31
8 ATMADRID V VALENCIA - LIVE (SUN 1956) 29
9 LIVE SUPER 14 RUGBY UNION (FRI 1700) 26
10 WWE EXPERIENCE (SUN 1656) 25

interesting one
10 LIVE VARSITY RUGBY LEAGUE (THU 1930) 44


Sky Sports 3
w/e 28 Mar 2010
000's
1 WWE LATE NIGHT SMACKDOWN (FRI 2159) 135
2 WWE LATE NIGHT RAW (MON 2500) 97
3 BAN V ENG TEST CRICKET (MON 2002) 69
4 GETAFE V REAL MADRID (THU 2131) 68
5 BARCELONA V OSASUNA-LIVE (WED 1855) 62
6 LIVE TAVISTOCK CUP GOLF (TUE 1500) 61
7 LIVE EUROPEAN TOUR GOLF (SUN 1300) 58
8 WWE HALL OF FAME (SUN 2200) 58
9 LIVE CHAMPIONSHIP RUGBY LEAGUE (THU 1929) 51
10 THIS WEEK IN WWE (SUN 2259) 49

I posted earlier that barcelona had 100k more than national league I misread it was only 10k



w/e 4th april 4 LIVE PREMIERSHIP RUGBY UNION (SAT 1700) 80k verus national league 51k


Oh and yes I'm bored lol

If 100000 League fans decided to en mass withdraw subscriptions at the end of the RL season Sky would pooh themselves.
RL have no chance of that as long as the current clowns are at the top table, united we stand divided we fall and we are truly divided.

Proof please

The two games were part of a back to back double header on a bank holiday. Hull KR v FC kicked off at 12:45 with Saints v Wigan at 3pm. Just surprised theres such a difference in figures

I always pack in my subscription at the end of the Super League season and rejoin in February so I'm doing my bit.

i like the bit above where the champnionship RL outrated the union too




in australia our under 20s competition regularly outrates the S14 so its a problem for union everywhere.

Smack down wins it all, ouch.

Part of it is down to the value of internationals.

RU rights are bought and sold very much like cricket rights. In cricket, Sky takes on a huge amount of commitment that it knows will not bring much in the way of viewing figures, such as the country championship, FP Trophy and low-grade internationals such as England touring Bangladesh. The reason they do that is simply because there are one or two events that really do make up the numbers - the Ashes and (to a lesser extent) Twenty20. Without buying up the dross, they can't get the events that they know will bring in the money.

I imagine RU is the same. Many RU fans won't see £40+ per month as worthwhile for a handful of Autumn internationals but they might if they could see some form of RU every week. Whether they actually watch it once they've subscribed is another issue - Sky advertise it as a "value add" to the three events of the year that they are desperate to show.

There's also the idea that there are far more "ABC1"s watching RU than RL. Super League might have more viewers but RU arguably has "better" viewers from an advertisers point of view.