I don't disagree, but I do find it incredible that an organisation like the RFL can't do a better job around workforce development and succession planning; if there's a shortage of good, well trained referees in this country, as there clearly is, then it's surely not beyond their wit to create a development plan to address the problem? I'm required to do so in my own line of work and it's very definitely not rocket surgery.

It also wouldn't be a massive project to analyse games from the last few seasons to find out where the errors are being made, then target some work at eliminating the most commonplace ones; the incumbent ref's would, I'm sure, have something useful to contribute as, despite my frustration at being robbed of a victory against the best side in SL, I'm sure they don't do it on purpose.

Maybe I'm an idealist, but I believe that most problems in the workplace that appear to be performance related can often be solved or at least ameliorated, by a bit of process re-engineering; it does however take some will and usually, there are resource implications - maybe that's the problem?

kippax legend!

I'm with you on that one. A lot of the time the refs and assistants are missing things not because they're blind (as we usually accuse them of from the terraces in the heat of the moment), but because either their positioning is poor, or the also-likely case of all of them looking in the same direction. For example they could all find themselves looking whether anything 'untoward' is happening during/after the tackle is completed, instead of paying attention to the defensive line being onside - or vice versa.

IMO there is no need for the pocket referee system from the NRL, just a clarification of clearly defined roles and responsibilities of each official on the field.

Although it isnt easy to be the governing body of an elite sport, the RFL do come across as somewhat incompetent at times. Every fan has an opinion on what they think is wrong with the game or what needs to change, but I think everyone would agree the standard of refereeing needs to improve. I fully agree the RFL need to do something, but how can us, the fans, get them to do this? In looking at the sport they are governing, they should be aiming to improve every aspect of the game which would include refereeing, however this just isnt happening. They will probably say well we have had an increase in referees, more full time officials blah blah blah, but although that is good it is not enough, nor does it focus on the quality of referees. IMO they need a fully committed, well financed programme in place controlled by people who know what they are doing. Give referees higher salaries, this should encourage more to follow this path. Make the training and experience more challenging and thorough to increase the standard of referees. Once these two things are developed and there are a greater number of elite officials, not only should they be better refs they can also be accountable for decisions. If they cock up one week, another ref can take their place which doesnt happen at the moment.

Communication from the governing body to the fans would help here. In a lot of cases, it's not just the refs that get things wrong, it's the fans themselves. There are countless examples on RLFans alone (so god knows how many more examples you'd find by joining in post-match pub debates) where people confidently state that a rule says one thing, only to be countered and corrected by others showing that they quite clearly have never read the rule book.

Take offside for instance, it's the age-old favourite of Rugby League fans to complain about, the rules are simple - but there have been mentions in the past by referees on radio phone-ins etc that they each approach the 10-metre thing in different ways - some referees take the teams back 11/12 metres, and then allow them to creep forward slightly - others say that they themselves go back further than the 10 and allow the teams to stand in front of him which affords him a slightly better view of who may be encroaching the 10 (which is logical, no human being alive has 180 degree vision to my knowledge). The key to it though, according to said officials on phone-in programs, is that they each consult with the teams' coaches prior to a game to inform them of what they expect from the players during the game.

Now, the above info is quite a few seasons old (from memory, the bulk of it game when Ashley Klein was a guest on GMR), so things may have changed slightly, but different refs handling things in different ways is a recipe for disaster to start off with, but it also means that fans actually don't have a clue about what's going on. In the specific example of refs deliberately going back further than the players, of course this is going to make it look like the opposition are [ialways[/i offside - and let's be honest, the majority of us never bother looking to see if our own team are offside as well.

Most of the ambiguity of different approaches to controlling a game, or current "interpretations" being used (which are not in the official laws book), could be rectified immediately by the RFL simply telling us what's going on. It's not like they would even have to spend any money on doing it, all they need do is e-mail the relevant press contact lists and RLFans among others would happily publish the latest instructions to referees from Red Hall.

Have you done any reffing? Ive only reffed a couple of unofficial u12's training games and it's harder than it sounds. It's not about "counting to six". It's counting off six tackles, sometimes 7 as there might be a zero tackle, whilst looking for offside (both defence and attack), markers not square, interference at the ptb, holding down, correct ptb, forward passes, obstruction, offside at a kick, knock ons, high tackles, when is the player held, was he tackled before he offloaded plus more. Do that for a few sets of six including communicating to the players during play and you'll soon see how easy it is to get distracted and suddenly think "oh bollox is that the 2nd or 3rd tackle". My tactic is to simply guess at 3rd if I forget!
Now Uncle Alibert has (or should have) a bit more help since he's wired up to touch and in-goal judges but then it's high pressured, very fast and with both teams trained to get away with whatever they can. So I can fully understand how he might have mis-counted. Let's face it, if Warrington hadn't scored from it no-one would have noticed or cared.
If it was happening all the time then maybe there might be a case for some kind of action by the RFL, but I don't think it is and I don't think it's as huge an issue as is being made out. It's a refereeing mistake. Is it any worse than the Catalan try given after a knock-on by Blanch?

But why wouldnt we want to see these mistakes minimised as much as possible with efforts made to improve these things? Its a mistake that can easily be avoided. And obviously the Blanch knock on should have been seen, hence why I have stated the referee's need to develop and get better. Human error will happen but at the moment I dont think we are doing enough to minimise it

A position on the board at Odsal surely awaits.

But why vilify the referee in all cases, as is often quoted - they don't miss tackled or drop the ball, so when a team plays the perfect game, then they can gripe about the ref.

Yes they could be better and any failings of refs I place firmly on one mans shoulders, but he is seemingly bullet proof now.

How long have referees been full time pros? And aren't they only full time in Superleague? It's a tough ask for someone to go through years of training and advancement through the grades for a possible shot at one of half a dozen paying jobs.

And after listening to Jamie Bloem talk about becoming a ref, I agree with him - all full time players should have to take the refereeing course.

Just one of those things. Yes its annoying but, its just a mistake and we all makee those.
Everyone plays to the whistle, so if he gives a set of 7, or a set of 5, tough. At least it wasn't on the last play of the game and plenty happened after that incident.
More concern is the number of tries scored from forward passes. There were 4 or 5 in Sundays match and having seen the highlights from the weekends other games, there were plenty elsewhere.

Tend to agree with the previous: as a way of awarding a try that should not have been, mis-counting the tackles is pretty much a rarity in comparison to missed forward passes, knock-ons etc.

Wish I'd seen Holdsworth's set of one though

Been dropped this week though you won't see it in the press.

is sent to a maths lesson

That I would agree with - if young players are sent on the initial courses free of charge, as part of their development plan with whichever club they're playing for, it could have two-fold benefits; firstly, increasing their understanding of the stress and difficulty faced by the ref during a matche, which may lead to less dummy-spitting and a greater understanding amongst players and ref's, and secondly, some of them might decide to take further courses as insurance for the time when their playing career comes to and end, thus increasing the pool of potential first-grade match officials.

maybe they should hold 6 small pebbles in one of their hands like cricket umpires, then simply swap a pebble to their other hand when a tackle is completed.... problem solved... we can also rename 'tackle' to 'pebble' to avoid any potential confusion.

[i'HELD....... 5th PEBBLE'[/i

Not been given a game this week - Cas' - Hull's Thomason, so I wonder if he was initially down for that.

Also when a fight breaks out they can lob pebbles at the back of their heads to break them up


To be fair the lineman do naff all for me, refs have a big responsibilty and dont get helped out enough e.g Dragons vs kr with the knock on. And there must be two linesmen that cant count to six aswell.

Wouldn't have thought so. Richard Silverwood is doing 2 games this week and James Child is on holiday this week so guess he was down for the Widnes game.

That would seem to be the case - incidentally, Uncle Alibert hasn't been downgraded but dropped completely.

That's probably because for a start we do not have linesmen in rugby league we have touch judges. A touch judge has just 3 responsibilities, they judge all matters regarding touch, they judge kicks at goal and they provide input where requested from the referee. I was at the Dragons match and in the corner where the incident happened and from my view Salter got to the ball first and knocked it on and if there was a Cats knock on it came after that though I couldn't be sure. Obviously having seen the clip of it I have different information now and would have called for the knock on but unfortunately when you are in the middle and have to make that decision you don't have the replay facility and can only go on what you have seen from your own view point. The fact that having had further information that you did not have at the time that may have changed your decision doesn't make you a bad official.

anyone that saw Aliberts awful performance at the weekend will fully understand why he has been dropped.

No sympathy for the man. If we mis-count things at work it costs us money if it's too many and sometimes customers if it's too less. I can accept mistakes happen but they usually end up with a ticking off in the office. Alibert's dropping for this weekends round of games is his ticking off for his inability to be able to count to 6.

No, I guess you won't...

[url=http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/rugby-league/referee-dropped-after-try-error-7579366.htmlReferee dropped after try error[/url

I suppose it's reasonable that, just like in any other job, refereeing errors of this magnitude have consequences for the responsible individual; it doesn't help WTW though.

Is this going to be a common thing dropping refs for errors? If this the case the weekend of the 30th March there will be no matches as there are no refs as they will be all dropped.

Slightly OT didn't Bentham do something similar last year? It was on Sky and I think it was Wire who were playing (can't remeber the opposition), where he called the 5th tackle just as the player was being tackled. Did anything happen to him?