At the end of the day if we beat Oz we get to the final and they go out. If we lose then in reality it'll be NZ v Oz. So it rides on next week. I still hold out hope for a Samoa v England final as I think Samoa may spring a surprise next week!

Sam Tomkins could face a video review for a leg-twist on Simona in the 53rd minute

DCE looks like he's out of the Tournement with Brisbanes Ben Hunt set to replace him at stand off

The only change I would make would be to bring O'Loughlin in for Westerman.

I think people do a disservice to Leilua who is an excellent player when commenting on Shenton's defence.

I felt Shenton did pretty well to mostly contain the most dangerous centre on display today, including the centre I think is the world's best in Whare.

This. I cannot understand why the outstanding back rower of the Super League season by a country mile isn't in the 17. We need Elliott Whitehead's attacking threat outwide. Thought Ferres, Westerman and Joel Tomkins created no attacking threat so any two of them three need to be replaced by O'Loughlin (who has real aggression and leadership qualities) plus Whitehead who knows where the tryline is.

England's pack was dominated there today. The back row in particular is really weak. I would drop both the second rowers and bring in Whitehead and O'Loughlin.

England made a huge number if individual errors across the park and put themselves under a lot of pressure. The only player i saw that didn't do a great deal of positive stuff was westerman. Everyone else made some good stuff even though they may have made a mistake.

Swap SoL with Westerman and you get a huge uplift in contribution in both attack and defence.

That's all that's needed. Ideally Hardaker had been playing centre for two seasons but he hasn't so you can't justify picking him as centre.

I suppose it wouldn't help that McNamara played Ferres on the right when he plays for Huddersfield on the left. Can't suddenly switch sides of the field like that and be as effective especially at international level.

Elliot Whitehead is a necessity for England. Does Steven McNamara understand that?

Paranoid much? I'm sure if he was still at Saints you'd be just as vigorous in your defence.


FWIW I think he should keep his place.

Elliot Whitehead is our only saviour. He can win us the game vs Australia on his own.

England had a few fixable problems - dreadful ball control and really poor line speed being the top two. If they play that way against either Oz or NZ they'll get hammered. One is an individual issue, the other a team one which was also a problem at the WC. Hopefully the weakness up the middle on the line was down to new combinations - otherwise they'll ship a shedload of points.

In terms of personnel, both second rows looked ordinary to me, Shenton I think really struggles with the physicality, as does Charnley. It might be a big call but assuming SOL comes in I'd consider Hardaker + Burgess on the left and Whitehead for one of the other second rows.

Smith did better than expected but he HAS to run occasionally or he'll be completely anonymous, apart from his kicking which was very good.

The elephant in the room is Tomkins. He did well at covering grubbers, did as well as expected in tackling (very good takedown of a rampaging Pritchard) but you cannot ignore his problem with the high ball, most of which he doesn't even try to catch. Samoa didn't even pepper him - against Australia and NZ he'll be facing those kicks all day, and you'd expect him to completely miss at least two a game.

England are far too error-prone in general to have much hope against Australia. If they vastly improve in that area and manage not to gift tries through schoolboy defensive errors then they have the ability to run Australia close. Sadly I expect we'll be lamenting early errors causing us to be 12+ behind within a few minutes.

S. Tomkins seems to have lost an awful lot of pace, to be honest I don't think he warrants his place in the team.
Leaving that bomb to bounce just inside the dead ball line was a huge error in judgement, it would have being easier to have a foot over the whitewash and just catch the fecker, to me it shows he isn't (& never has been) a full-back in a month of Sundays. Get Hardaker in there or we'll get mullered.
Ferres should be dropped for Whitehead and whilst Westerman was clearly used as stopper down the middle (33 tackles in about 40 minutes game time) his talents were wasted despite getting his nose through the line a few times. Still, he should be in above Tomkins J even if if SoL comes back in.

I said right from the start of Sam's international career that he'll NEVER make an international full back and I stick to it. Seems like more people are now seeing this. It's not just his work under the high ball, he doesn't get go in hard on the head on tackle. That try under the posts - a full back like Burke, Mumby, even Hampson would have stopped it. He has pace and skill which I always felt would be best used at stand off. I'm beginning to think maybe centre or more realistically coming off the bench. If Hardaker had held the FB spot over the last couple of years (which there is no doubt in my mind he should have) he'd be performing solidly there now. My worry is the coaches panic and bring Hardaker in for a big game and he makes a big one-off mistake. The idea of picking Sam seems to me purely for coming into the attacking line. That is just one facet of FB play and in my mind a simple one - pretty easy to create the extra man if you've got a reasonable level of pace. From what I've seen Hardaker is strong in attack too anyway.

thought sam tomkins had a decent game, some great defence from him, saving a few tries and diffusing kicks, ok he let the ball bounce for a high bomb but we got away with it this time and he made up for it with his try

Seen varying reports on Sam Tomkins performance ranging from people slating him leaving high balls to some describing him as our match winner (and forgetting the high ball issue).

In truth it was a mixed bag from him. A real mixture of sensational defence, slick attack and some strange decisions dealing with kicks. One thing is for sure the lad needs to be in our 13 somewhere! We're not good enough to leave a lad of that ability out.

I agree with the last sentence. His floating over the ground running style reminds me of Jonathan Davies'. JD started at SO, was moved to FB but, IMO, played his best (and great) RL when put in the centres. That's where I am beginning to think ST should be playing. I am not sure JD had played there until a relatively advanced age but he excelled. JD was probably lighter than ST and up against monsters of the era - Meninga, Miles, the Iros, etc. So I think ST maybe could do a job there. Having said that, JD was a much better all round rugby player and as a result maybe was more adaptable?

I agree he's too good to leave out completely, but the fact is the Aussies will have watched the Samoa game and they will do what Samoa didn't - put accurate bombs up all day.

I'll defend his attacking capability, as he does pose a genuine threat, and I'll defend his one-on-one and defence against grubbers. But the high ball issue just can't be ignored as though he can somehow 'make up for it' elsewhere. You let in one or two soft tries against Australia and you may as well not bother turning up.

Just looking at the match stats. Tom Burgess - 8 tackles and 4 misses. That's horrendous really, even for a half-back.

Talk about playing him centre on here and the other thread. That along with talk of playing HB still presents a problem defensively. I'm not trying to diss the guy as he's obviously a great player but no matter where you put him, whether it's FB, the halves, or centre then they're concerns defensively compared to other options. As a Leeds fan I'd say Hardaker is a better option defensively and whilst he's more than usual in attack in terms of being an exciting runner, he lacks a bit in attack still compared to Tomkins in terms of being a creator for others.

I'd be loathed to change the Widdop/Smith partnership too. I think Widdop is good and will shine as he goes along at International RL and Smith I'm a fan of too. With HB's you get the two E's......either Exciting or Effective, the latter will always struggle more to win over fans but is probably more important. If you put together a highlight reel of every HB in SL then Smith's would probably rank well down the list in terms of watchablitily because he doesnt play in a exciting way, yet he's been one of the most consistent and important HB in the league for the last 2 years now.

Regardless of who plays where in the backs, if our forwards - particularly the front row - can play as well as they did on Saturday, I honestly believe we can dominate Australia. It'll be a close run game, but if we can stop their progression, and keep on top of their kicking game, then we've an excellent chance.

Do I believe we that we can do it at the weekend?

Don't be daft, we always bottle it against Australia

Apart from ball retention (it seemed like every time the Samoans hit the ball in a tackle the England player would drop it), the defensive line was just poor. Far too often the whole team was back-peddling or stood still, waiting for Samoa to come to them. If you do that against Australia you'll get mullered.

The poor reads near to the line had also better be 'teething troubles' or rustiness or whatever, because they were inexcusable.

This is what will prevent us from beating the Aussies.
Bottling it. We have the players to beat the Aussies. It's whether we're mentally though enough to do it.

Re: XYZ player not playing well, I thought it was a funny old game, with just about every player barring maybe Widdop and Graham (good games) and Ferres (poor), going from one extreme to another.

Sam Tomkins - Great defensive awareness early on, backed up well for his try. Not good under the high ball.

Shenton - Some great tackles, and again supported well for his try, but missed what should have a been few easy one on one tackles.

Matty Smith - Thought he linked up well and had some quick hands, but his drop goal attempt was pitiful and he needs more composure.

Watkins - Again took his try well and looked fantastic in attack, put in some good hits but guilty of going wandering.

Ryan Hall - See above (without scoring a try obviously).

Darryl Clark - Added something when he came on but caught out of position a few times.

It's been a while since I've seen a game like that, with so many players going from hero to zero and vice versa.