Thank god I support a team that got it right the deal was

Hats of to Ian Lenegan, it is about time someone said enough is enough. The way the RFL has been going it was only a matter of time until this happened.

All that has happened in the last 12 months is the RFL have undone all the good choices they have made in the previous 10 years. Despite it not being popular the licencing system has been successful. It has made the league stronger, protected teams in and out super league from over spending to gain/avoid relegation. Most importantly it has increased the number of good young players in the league. The stadia has also improved directly because of licencing, despite what Blake Solly says.

Everything has not been perfect but that does not mean you change everything. If the licencing costs too much stream line it. What is the point in Wigan, Leeds, Warrington, Hull applying for a licence every 4 years, they are always going to make the grade. Tony Smith hit the nail on the head when he said you should have a licence system but when team breaks the rules i.e. go bust, they should be kicked out.

Hull KR close to 15 overseas players? Don't talk bolox man.

Close to 15 overseas players in one HKR side that took the field?
Care to name it?

I mean I know you have a clear hatred of everything HKR but good god man stop talking utter BS.

This is the attitude that is inherently wrong with licencing. Why the heck should anyone think that Wigan, Leeds, Warrington and Hull have a God given right to be in the top division for ever? A quick scan down the history books (in all sports) show that a constant presence at the top table isn't viable. Neither is it healthy for the continued existence (in the long term) of any sport.

I cant be bothered trawling through ever HKR line up, but their squad contained Ford, Webster, Aizue, Fisher, Tangata-toa, Gene, Gannon, O’niell, Vella, Dyer, Bauer, Lennon, Tandy, Lovegrove and at least 12 of them played together in the Hull Derby 2007.

Erm, a quick scan of the history books would tell you Leeds and Wire have been in the top division for ever……

...but the point the previous poster was making is that we don't have a right to be there.

I like the 2x12/3x8 plan as it encourages teams to concentrate and do well throughout the year. It doesn't all depend on how your team performs at the end of the year, if they mess up near the beginning then come the split they could find themselves out of the top 8 and unable to actually compete for the Super league trophy that year. With the "bottom and middling teams" following the split they will find themselves in a league with similar clubs, leading to compettitive games all with a Grand Final of their own to aim for. Then the "middling clubs" will have the bonus that if they finish in the top half then next year they will get "promoted" giving them a chance at the Super League title in the following year. It's effectively promotion/relegation twice in a season.

Its not that they have a right to be there, its that barring a catastrophic series of events they always will be there. And even if that catastrophic series of events were to happen (which is very very very unlikely) then any fall would be temporary but very damaging.

12x12 3x8 will simply exacerbate the gaps in the league. The top will get much bigger, the bottom will get much smaller and the ones in the middle will be stuck in between getting smashed by the bigger boys and being left behind, smashing the little clubs and leaving them behind. The clubs promoted to the 2nd set of 12 would be making a jump from a league containing clubs not a whole lot better than the top amateur leagues, to a league with clubs (apparently)being able to spend £1.6m in wages. 12x12/3x8 will give us two leagues where the bottom clubs in each league get further and further away from the top clubs in those leagues. We would have 2 very very uneven leagues.

...like when Wigan were relegated in the 80's you mean?



I agree there will be differences to begin with, but I diagree that they will get worse. By playing against better team the lower teams will get better and improve, thus closing the gap.

problem i have with the 12/12 and 3x8 is the magic game...let's say for example after 23 rounds team in 9th have 14 points team in 8th have 15 points.....but team in 9th played the team who finish top at the magic and lost, and the team in 8th played the team who finish bottom (12th) at the magic and won.........oh dear.....going to be some fallout there.... Magic weekend should be based on league placing from previous year....1 v 2, 3 v 4 etc etc......or based on current seaon and played after 11 rounds with same format......that way no-one gets an easy 2 points

yeah, catastrophic series of events resulting in a damaging but short lived relegation.

Why wont the better teams improve at a faster rate because they are playing better teams more often? The only lower teams who would play better teams more often under this system would be the top championship clubs who would play the bottom SL clubs. This means the bottom SL clubs are playing at a lower level (going further away from the top SL clubs) whilst the top championship clubs would get closer to the lower SL clubs they would be getting further away from the top ones.

The bottom clubs would improve by having to play the improved middle clubs in the first half of the season. This is not a quick fix but I believe as more clubs (4) would end up playing 'better' opponents than they would in a 1 up 1 down system (1) I think it would help improving the lower clubs at a quicker rate than 1 up 1 down. The same would also be true with the upper and lower Super League teams.

If lower SL clubs are playing championship clubs more often, they would be playing top SL clubs less often. This means that the lower SL clubs are playing at a lower standard. This isnt going to improve their performance.

Top SL clubs will be playing Top SL clubs more Often and lower SL clubs less often. This will improve their performance.

Top Championship clubs will play bottom SL clubs more often, and bottom championship clubs less and top SL clubs never. This will improve their performance, but they are playing clubs whose performance is falling so this will bring them closer relatively to the bottom SL clubs but get them progressively further away from the top SL clubs.

Bottom championship clubs will be destroyed.

The lower SL clubs will be playing upper SL clubs half the time which will improve their performance.

The upper Championship clubs will then be playing lower SL clubs for half the season which will improve their performance plus if they finish in the top half of the table next year they will play upper SL clubs - which will improve their performance again.

The lower Championship clubs will play the upper Championship clubs for half the season which will improve their performance and if they finish in the top half of the table they will play lower SL teams for the rest of the season which again will improve their performance.

As the second half of the season will feature three leagues of equally matched teams, the games will be competitive and more attractive to supporters which, if the clubs market it well, could lead to improved gates and better survival for all of the teams.

9/4/07 included 7 english players in the match day squad which means it isn't possible for 12 of the players you mentioned playing together and no where near the close to 15 as you suggested.
5/5/07 included 7 english players in the match day squad which means it isn't possible for 12 of the players you mentioned playing together and no where near the close to 15 as you suggested.
8/7/07 included 7 english players in the match day squad which means it isn't possible for 12 of the players you mentioned playing together and no where near the close to 15 as you suggested.

Now do everyone a favour and stop with the agenda and stop talking BS.
Ta.

They will be playing fewer SL clubs than they do now.

If they are promoted, someone is relegated, that would involve teams going from playing 27 games against SL oppostion, to 22, to 0. Any rational person can see that that team would drop in standards.

The bottom championship clubs wont be able to afford to compete with the top championship ones. They will be expected to compete with teams spending just under SL level wages with no real increase in funding.


Nobody will watch the last third (not 2nd half) of the third tier season. It would be pretty pointless. Large numbers of the top tier wouldnt have anything to to play for very early on after the split because they will be too far away and should a championship side lose 2 games against the other championship sides, its season is over. If the championship sides take points off each other, their season will be over. For most clubs, in most seasons, most to the season after the split will be dead rubbers.

The point Smokey is making is that you are only assuming teams improve when they play better opposition. If that is the case then reverse must also be possible that the lower 4 teams from SL1 will deteriorate when they split and play the top for sides from the second league.

Hence the gap between the Top 8 and the next league in fact grows........

It's safe to say I totally disagree with your view. But, to stop us going backwards and forwards with us both saying the other is wrong, I will stop here. Unfortunately, unless the clubs and the RFL are brave enough to actually implement the 2/12:3/8 structure, neither of us will convince the other that they were right.

Beaten into submission by Smokey, wonders never cease

.

Rubbish.

Supporters of those teams in the 3rd 8 will be hoping that they can finish in the top 4 and so get into the plays-offs with the hope of a grand final win and/or avoid finishing at the bottom and hence being relegated out of Super League 2 for the following season.




The current structure is no good as, unless you are at top 6 SL level, the whole season for the whole game has become a dead rubber in your terms.

The 12/12;8/8/8 must be ratified (allied with a compromise on the distribution of central funds from the RFL to the clubs) thus creating a pyramid structure as exists in soccer in this country.

Unless this potential gangway to the top of the pyramid is put in place, potential financial backers waiting in the wings to put money & expertise into current Championship clubs will walk away. It is irrelevant to argue that no team will manage to get promoted from SL2 to SL1 (by finishing in the top 4 of the 2nd eight). The simple fact of the potential being there will bring money and growth to the game lower down the pyramid which will in turn be of long term benefit to the top 6 level Super League clubs - if ony they would take their blinkers off and see it.

Not quite. But we'd already started going round in circles & some of us have things we should actually be doing , not browsing rugby fansites.

On the 2nd of September 2007 Hull FC played Hull KR at the KC stadium. In their Squad Hull KR include Lennon, Dyer, Lovegrove, Bauer, Webster, Vella, Fisher, Tandy, O'niel, Gene, Gannon and Tangata-Toa. That is 12 overseas players in a match day squad.

Your argument that 3 times Hull KR ONLY fielded 10 overseas players is fsking embarrassing. The fact you entirely ignored a game to help your argument doubly so.

Happy to Help

Yeah I can well imagine the a play-offs grand final to be the 5th best team in SL2 or the 17th best team in the two divisions being on par with the Superbowl.

Any-one dropping out of SL 2 will be dropping in to the equivalent of C1, the drop there is as big, if not bigger than the drop from SL to the Championship ever was. It will damage hugely anyone who drops out.


No it hasnt.

if all we need to do is sell them a myth. We could just lie.

If you are a rugby league supporter, you are going to have to alter the impression your posts portray of you.

The consensus I have have is that rugby league supporters think the recent grand finals' day at Leigh Sporting Village was a fantastic event enjoyed by all. The Batley v Sheffield match was excellent. I don't know why you'd want to denigrate it by describing it as a play-off to see who's 15th or 16th best team in the game but that's up to you.

On your second point, it will be interesting to see if Leeds Rhinos' "reserves", Hunslet Hawks, will be "hugely damaged" following their unfortunate last day of the season relegation to Championship 1. I doubt it.