You are a very naughty person. I've just spit my coffee all over my keyboard. Considering I work from home it means I have to clean it up myself. Very unfair of you



PS you need to add pedant to the list



To be fair, I can understand his POV but simply don't agree with it.

No, the SL chairmen voted for Mr Wood to run SL, not the RFL.

It was the SL clubs, the lower league clubs and the community game that voted for Mr Wood to run the RFL.

No, do a bit of basic research, or at a very minimum read what you are responding to so you don’t make these idiotic statements.
Firstly there are 14 SL clubs not 12.
Secondly they amount they give them is SL clubs money, not central funding. The SL tv deal is split 16 ways, 1/16th goes to each SL club, 1/16th to the RFL for the community game and central costs, and 1/16th is given to the championships.

Smokey,

You seem happy with the current setup and very happy with Nigel Wood.

Fair enough, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. That said, I genuinely find it hard to see how anyone holds that opinion, so help me out. Explain what you think the sport will look in, say, 4 years time, if we keep going as we are (in particular, attendances, sponsorship and overall playing talent). Seriously, I don't mean that facetiously, I'm genuinely interested in why you and others are happy with things as they are.

Not really, I just see the obvious idiocy of chopping and changing every couple of years in a constant state of panic. There are plenty I an unhappy with, The SC doesn’t work, the marketing of the game is appalling and sadly youth development isn’t what it should be. I just understand that making Nigel Wood a bogeyman and blaming him for everything isn’t going to actually solve those problems.
If we do what we are doing right now, in 4 years time we will be pretty much in the same place. If we change somethings, and carry on with doing what we are doing in a few other areas then we will be moving forward.

What you have to remember is that even if we get everything right, even if we do everything perfectly, it still takes time to take effect.

The reason for the chopping and changing though is that the decisions originally made have been shown up to be poor and changes have been needed. Knee Jerk decisions are being made (club call) to supposedly make our game unique but just end up seen as gimmicks that cheapen our game. Fundemental changes in our game are needed and the RFL needs to start listening to just the same people over and over again. Gimmicks are not needed. Real and honest evaluation of our game is needed before if it has any chance of growing. Wood is in charge and therefore has to take responsibility and deserves 90% of the critism he attracts but chairmen etc have got to have a look at themselves too and start making decisions based on strengthing the game and not just the bank balance.

To make major changes now, would be the knee-jerk decision, if it was a change back to P+R it would be a knee-jerk bad decision.

In the scheme of things, things like Clubcall are so minor as to be irrelevant. There isn’t anyone sat at home refusing to watch or be involved in our game because of clubcall.

Other than 'make it better', what are your specific thoughts on SC, marketing and youth dev. ?

I know im pretty much repeating myself but as a minimum I would lower the cap by about 500k, and have 5 marquee spaces for players who can be paid whatever. There are many little things we can do to improve the marketing of the game, some pretty cheap things, Heritage rounds for instance, we have traditional games at easter, Leeds V Bradford, Saints V Wigan, Hull Derby, lets make these games ‘something’ alternate the home team every year and give the winner some little trophy as well as 3 points. Make that round about something whether it be ‘women in league’ like they have in the NRL, maybe just even celebrating an individual player who played for both clubs that kind of thin. It is pretty unforgivable that this round doesn’t sell out. We have these traditional fixtures at easter, we should do the same at the end of every season last game of every season should be against the same side, doesn’t need to be a derby, we make it into a big game.. Start every season with a double header of a couple of big games in a large regional stadium. Lets fill St James’ park with a bit of a jolly to start the season, do it on a stand alone weekend to get the neutrals in aswell. We need to build tent peg ‘event’ games throughout the season to keep visibility up.

Youth development needs a complete overhaul, from the very very bottom where we have good willing volunteers who unfortunately aren’t able to coach kids to the level they need to, all the way up to bringing them into SL sides.

So this last page is Smokey and the bandit with a big truck thrown in, god this is surreal.

You being serious? , have ' gimmick ' rounds? , you are Nigel wood

What we're dealing with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.

Quote ="Starbug"You being serious? , have ' gimmick ' rounds? , you are Nigel wood'" Yeah, who on earth would do that apart from me and Nigel Wood en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHL_Winter_Classic en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_International_Series en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bills_Toronto_Series www.nfl.com/pink en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving_Classic en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_bat en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_on_Christmas_Day www.nrl.com/TelstraPremiership/H ... fault.aspx en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFL_Herita ... s_Football www.nrl.com/news/news/newsarticl ... fault.aspx And lots of other sports who are also very successful without just giving Leigh money.

Quote ="Starbug"You being serious? , have ' gimmick ' rounds? , you are Nigel wood'" Yeah, who on earth would do that apart from me and Nigel Wood en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHL_Winter_Classic en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_International_Series en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bills_Toronto_Series www.nfl.com/pink en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving_Classic en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_bat en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_on_Christmas_Day www.nrl.com/TelstraPremiership/H ... fault.aspx en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFL_Herita ... s_Football www.nrl.com/news/news/newsarticl ... fault.aspx And lots of other sports who are also very successful without just giving Leigh money.

We do need to find a few marquee events to expand the game and genrate increased investment.

Ive thought for a long time we should have a xmas day event.

Shift our internationals and start the next try nations then.

Beeb are showing an appetite for internationals.

England v Australia at a smaller northern ground on the BBC.

And.sky can take the majority of the series as now.

11am start would get good ratings.

Im amazed no sport has done this yet.

It'll never happen. It's too close to the start of the new season and would effectively rule out things like off-season surgery for international players and is slap bang in the middle of pre-season for clubs.

I'm not amazed. For summer sports it's in their off-season, for winter sports they generally use Xmas for their domestic schedules.

There's no reason not to have a few marketed rounds though, I especially like the Heritage round and I'm sure there are a couple of other concepts that could work.

Anything international requires the NRL, they are not well known for their burning interest in the international scene.

Having read through smokeys links, yes fine, have gimmick rounds, but seriously, that will save the sport and the clubs in it ?



Meaningful competitive games is what is needed, not players using pink balls, half of the stuff is just playing matches on holidays like Xmas,new year and easter

Sorry smokey I am dissapointed if thats the best you've got

No half the stuff isnt just playing matches on holidays. It is all about promoting the game and using different tactics to do it, using a pink ball wont save the game, but taking the time and effort to build a positive image of the game, using things like charities and using it to actually get people to the game will.

Meaningful competitive matches are only meaningful if people are watching

Try reading what i put again rather than being willfully stupid.

To be fair, there are times when you could be accused of being the same

I like the idea of a heritage round personally. I think it's worth a try, a lot of people moan that RL is too keen to break away from it's tradition so anything that celebtrates RL's history is a good thing IMO. Its not a radical change but its a pretty simple change that can only have a positive impact IMO.

Smokey is tinkering with the colour of the icing on the bun.

The rest of us are working towards a new structure for RL in this country that will allow the whole game to grow.

Smokey says the standard of marketing in RL is rubbish. Well what do you expect when there is a salary cap and no 1-up, 1-down promotion and relegation between the leagues? ...

Take for example, the marketing director at Workington. How thankless is his task with the current closed shop? No chance of promotion to the top division, restriction on how much the club can spend (no matter how much sponsorship he might otherwise be able to bring in). Really, what has he got to market? The current structure of RL is strangling what should be a hotbed area to death. It's criminal when you think of Workington players that have contributed to the succees of GB in past. Workington is just one example. The current closed shop/no promotion-relegation, cap on spending etc is killing the game from its roots and I don't support it.

Contrast with how Soccer in this country is organised. Another example: Crawley Town. Non-league a couple of years ago. Then they get a financial backer with money, nouse and a dream to live (& money to spend). Crawley could now be just two seasons away from the Premier League. On the way, all their opponents benefits from hugely increased crowds when Crawley play away. What's the dfference with how RL is currently being run? Soccer has automatic promotion and relegation & no cap on spending (but with serious penalties if clubs go bust).

How could it be expected that anybody would set-up or invest in a business in any indusrty where some officials impose a cap on how much you can spend? It's just nonsense and central planning gone mad.

If a club can get it's income up to say £10 million per annum, there should be no problem with them spending £10 million per annum without artificially imposed limits on spending at all. The game as a whole needs to maximise it's total income - not shoot itself in the foot.

That my friend pretty much hits the nail on the head



No doubt the franchise fairies will be along soon to say you are talking nonsense and the game is in great shape and clubs have 3 years to bring in sponsorship and pull in crowds and turn over £3 million in income in a league were the fans have given up the sport because of the hoops there local clubs as to jump through whilst super league continues to ignore rules they brought in.

Awaits links to be posted proving how over sports thrive doing this nonsense

Sorry to burst your bubble but there IS a cap in the Football League. It's basically 65% of income on players wages.
It's an attempt to stem the tide of clubs going bust in the national sport by overreaching themselves in this flawless promotion and relegation system they have.
Apposite as well that you chose Crawley Town as your example. Sugar daddies are not the future of sport, and when the guy at Crawley gets bored, ill or dies, the whole thing will come crashing around their ears.
Ask the good people who supported Rushden and Diamonds about their long term success - rising from 100 years of the non League status these towns deserved, to crash and burn in a decade, on the whim of one man.

Quote ="Wooden Stand"Smokey is tinkering with the colour of the icing on the bun. The rest of us are working towards a new structure for RL in this country that will allow the whole game to grow.'" We have a structure which allows the game to grow right now. Going back to the structure we had when the game was at its lowest ebb would be a moronic backward step Quote Smokey says the standard of marketing in RL is rubbish. Well what do you expect when there is a salary cap and no 1-up, 1-down promotion and relegation between the leagues? ...'" I would expect the marketing of the game has f’ck all to do with 1up 1 down P+R nonsense nor the salary cap. Quote Take for example, the marketing director at Workington. How thankless is his task with the current closed shop? No chance of promotion to the top division, restriction on how much the club can spend (no matter how much sponsorship he might otherwise be able to bring in). Really, what has he got to market? The current structure of RL is strangling what should be a hotbed area to death. It's criminal when you think of Workington players that have contributed to the succees of GB in past. Workington is just one example. The current closed shop/no promotion-relegation, cap on spending etc is killing the game from its roots and I don't support it.'" If Workingtons marketing manager has no other ideas than ‘come watch workington, we might at some point be in a different league with different players and we also might now’ then he is poor at his job and I have no sympathy for him. Quote Contrast with how Soccer in this country is organised. Another example: Crawley Town. Non-league a couple of years ago. Then they get a financial backer with money, nouse and a dream to live (& money to spend). Crawley could now be just two seasons away from the Premier League. On the way, all their opponents benefits from hugely increased crowds when Crawley play away. What's the dfference with how RL is currently being run? Soccer has automatic promotion and relegation & no cap on spending (but with serious penalties if clubs go bust).'" Just like Rushden and Diamonds, That worked out well for everyone didnt it www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/13738222 Quote How could it be expected that anybody would set-up or invest in a business in any indusrty where some officials impose a cap on how much you can spend? It's just nonsense and central planning gone mad.'" Who do you think is more in favour of the Salary Cap? The players or the owners? Quote If a club can get it's income up to say £10 million per annum, there should be no problem with them spending £10 million per annum without artificially imposed limits on spending at all. The game as a whole needs to maximise it's total income - not shoot itself in the foot.'" You want a club turning over £10m to be able to spend £10m on wages?

Quote ="Wooden Stand"Smokey is tinkering with the colour of the icing on the bun. The rest of us are working towards a new structure for RL in this country that will allow the whole game to grow.'" We have a structure which allows the game to grow right now. Going back to the structure we had when the game was at its lowest ebb would be a moronic backward step Quote Smokey says the standard of marketing in RL is rubbish. Well what do you expect when there is a salary cap and no 1-up, 1-down promotion and relegation between the leagues? ...'" I would expect the marketing of the game has f’ck all to do with 1up 1 down P+R nonsense nor the salary cap. Quote Take for example, the marketing director at Workington. How thankless is his task with the current closed shop? No chance of promotion to the top division, restriction on how much the club can spend (no matter how much sponsorship he might otherwise be able to bring in). Really, what has he got to market? The current structure of RL is strangling what should be a hotbed area to death. It's criminal when you think of Workington players that have contributed to the succees of GB in past. Workington is just one example. The current closed shop/no promotion-relegation, cap on spending etc is killing the game from its roots and I don't support it.'" If Workingtons marketing manager has no other ideas than ‘come watch workington, we might at some point be in a different league with different players and we also might now’ then he is poor at his job and I have no sympathy for him. Quote Contrast with how Soccer in this country is organised. Another example: Crawley Town. Non-league a couple of years ago. Then they get a financial backer with money, nouse and a dream to live (& money to spend). Crawley could now be just two seasons away from the Premier League. On the way, all their opponents benefits from hugely increased crowds when Crawley play away. What's the dfference with how RL is currently being run? Soccer has automatic promotion and relegation & no cap on spending (but with serious penalties if clubs go bust).'" Just like Rushden and Diamonds, That worked out well for everyone didnt it www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/13738222 Quote How could it be expected that anybody would set-up or invest in a business in any indusrty where some officials impose a cap on how much you can spend? It's just nonsense and central planning gone mad.'" Who do you think is more in favour of the Salary Cap? The players or the owners? Quote If a club can get it's income up to say £10 million per annum, there should be no problem with them spending £10 million per annum without artificially imposed limits on spending at all. The game as a whole needs to maximise it's total income - not shoot itself in the foot.'" You want a club turning over £10m to be able to spend £10m on wages?

I think you'll find my post said "If a club can get it's income up to say £10 million per annum, there should be no problem with them spending £10 million per annum". That is what I believe. If a Club's income is £10 million there should be no problem with it spending £10 million as it wishes. No need for officials to set limits on spending of any sort whether that be on salaries or anything else. The discipline should simply come from severe penalties if a club fails financially - 6 poiint deduction if you go into Administration and relegation to the bottom league if you go bust.

Back to Soccer. I don't like officials imposing spending caps on anything. If you must have one, a rule like the one you quote soccer has (max 65% of revenue to be spent on players' remuneration) then that is nearer the mark. It's about the max directors of any club would spend on players wages anyway if they want to avoid financial problems. But, as I say, I don't like it - it all has to be administered for a start and then everybody starts focussing on how to get round it rather than on how to grow a successful sports club.

Soccer again. I wonder if Leeds United supporters would support a structure in their game that
- limited their spending (even if taken over by say a mega rich Bahraini a la Man City/Abu Dhabi) and
- scrapped promotion?

There is a clear and obvious problem.


You are setting a limit, you are just doing it in a terrible way. You are giving a limit it is just a vague and changeable one which is only relevant in hindsight. The only difference between a salary cap and what you are proposing, is that a salary cap is pro-active and your idea is reactive and frankly quite pointless. If a club goes bust the people who managed to make it go bust are no longer there, by virtue of it going bust they are out on their ear, a 6 point penalty after the event makes no difference to them at all. It is just screaming in the wind so you can pretend you are actually doing something when in reality you arent doing anything of use.
Then that is a limit, you aren’t even holding to your ‘principle’ in the same post. A Percentage limit would simply entrench Leeds position as champions. From memory they turnover £2 or £3m more than any other club. A 65% of turnover cap would mean Leeds could pay £1.95m more in wages than anyone else. 65% of Leeds turnover is about £7.5m, this is two or three times more than the entire turnover of some clubs. It would be about 4 NRL squads worth of wages. I would be happy to see all the best players in the world playing for Leeds, we would win every game by 20-30 points, It would be the best rugby squad ever put together. It would also take us from making about £500k a year to losing about £4m a year. We would go bust pretty quickly.
Having seen how much relegation and uncertainty around it very nearly destroyed the club and has made its return infinitely harder I very much wish P+R had been removed from football. We had to sell our stadium, mortgage and slowly dismantle one of the best youth development programmes in Europe. As a club, we would be infinitely better off buying back the stadium, rebuilding Thorpe arch and Wilko’s development systems, and moving back up when that is place than spending millions on players hoping we can put a run together and get up.