it doesnt, you are incorrect.

=#8040FFYes it does, you are incorrect.

Do people get suspended from school/work for abuse of gingers? yes, because it is offensive, abusive and bullying, is there an RFL anti bullying law? yes. Did Leeds do anything to try and stop the chanting? no.

this doesnt mean that chanting that graham is ginger is the same as homophobia, and as such doesnt require the same response.

You have just created yourself a little circular argument that proves nothing other than your inability to understand degrees of offence and the power of certain words, which is quite frankly ridiculous

=#8000FFCas were not fined for the homophobic chanting, they were fined for failing to stop it. Leeds did not stop offensive chanting, so under the same interpretation, that is a fine because Leeds FAILED TO CONTROL THE CROWD, that is what the fine should be for, NOT THE CHANTING.

And how can you say, really, that a ginger person doesn't find chants about him, by thousands of people more hurtful then a gay person does about gay chants, by 15 people, for a combined total of 15 seconds? You're the one who cannot comprehend the degrees of offence caused here.

abuse is abuse the same has murder is murder end of. try telling a verbally bullied ginger fat kid its any different to a gay man been verbally abused its exactly the same and you know it is any decent lawyer would take the rfl to the cleaners.

In this modern free spoken society
There is a word that we still hold taboo
A word with a terrible history of being used to abuse oppress and subdue
Just six seemingly harmless letters arranged in this way will form a word
With more power than the pieces of metal and that are forged to make swords
A couple of G's (GG) an R and an E an I and an N
Just six little letters all jumbled together have caused damage that we may never mend
And it's important that we all respect that if these people should happen to choose to reclaim the word as their own it doesn't meant the rest of you have a right to its use
So never under estimate
The power that language imparts
Sticks and stones may break your bones but words can break hearts
A couple of G's (GG) an R and an E an I and an N

Only a ginger can call another ginger ginger
Only a ginger can call another ginger ginger

When you are a ginger life is pretty hard
Years of ritual bullying in the school yard
Kids calling you ranga and fanta pants
No invitation to the high school dance
But you get up and learn to hold your head up
You try to keep your cool and not get het up
But until the feeling of it's is truly let up
And the word is ours and ours alone don't you know

Only a ginger can call another ginger ginger
Only a ginger can call another ginger ginger
So if you call us ginge we just might come unhinged
If you don't have a fringe with at least a tinge of the ginge
Only a ginger can call another ginger ginger
Just like only a ninja can sneak up on another ninja.

Now listen to me when I am looking for sympathy
Just because we're sensitive to UV
Just because we're pathetically pale
We do alright with the females
Yeah I like to ask the ladies round for ginger beer
And soon their running their fingers through my ginger beard
And dunking my ginger nuts into their ginger tea
And asking if they can call me ginge
And I say "I don't think that's appropriate - it's gingerphobic".

Sorry, couldn't help it.

I don't want to get drawn into the "ginger" debate but here is clear evidence that extreme prejudice, hatred and intolerence exists in many forms not merely due to race, religion or sexual preference.

[urlhttp://menmedia.co.uk/news/s/1023950_final_tribute_to_murdered_goth_[/url

What bothers me about your argument Smokey is that you are quite vociferous in your condemnation of one form of prejudice and merely dismiss the notion that other forms of prejudice exist.

=#8000FFBecause Leeds are guilty of the form he's trying to defend.

But as everyone knows, there's one rule for Leeds & another rule for everyone else.

Has Graham ever given you cause to believe he does? Thomas has!

and regardless, it is unimportant if you believe homophobic chanting and chanter ginger at Graham are the same, the fact leeds fans chanted about Graham in no way mitigates the homophobic chanting at Cas. It doesnt make it any better or any more acceptable, nor does it makes Castlefords fine wrong.

I didn't realise the RFLs respect policy only covered minority groups who had been murdered. I thought a respect policy would be equal to all. Maybe [url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/3233392.stmthis man who was stabbed for being ginger[/url should have been killed and then SmokeyTA would give the nod for us to stop disrespecting ginger haired people.

The RFL have a respect policy, butit isn't just about respecting gays because they still are being persecuted in other countries. It's all about respect and right down to grass roots rugby league is trying to change peoples old ways. Calling GT a poof is as hurtful and disrespecting as it is calling JG a ginger barsteward.

CTRLFC were fined for not taking the correct action after GT (or anyone else in the crowd) was offended. Similarly this should apply to the rest of the RL world, including ginger haired.

Just because you dismiss it as "banter" doesn't mean the next person wouldn't be offended.

=#8000FFCorrect, but it also means Leeds should get the same fine for failing to control the crowd, just like Cas did.

whilst it does, and it is a terrible thing all the same, it is a much rarer occurrence because of this much rarer prejudice

oh, i fully acknowledge it exists, just at nowhere near the same level.

you however drew this parallel before the offence occurred, Seems strange for you to be making the point leeds should be fined before the offence occured?

Doesn't matter to what level it exists; it still does exist and therefore it should be just as punishable. I don't mean the same level of fine but at least a warning.

=#8000FFErm what? All of this was started after the 3rd chant, which clearly shows Leeds did not do enough to stop the chanting (Cas drowned out 2 of the 3 chants at Thomas with the RFL Respect CD, Leeds did not, you could hear the PA), Cas got fined for not stopping the chanting even though they tried, Leeds did not try, therefore a fine.

:2n377uuvi dont think you should disrespect anyone. I however understand the power behind certain words and actions and how the are indicative of certain attitudes.

But you almost found an example there, but not quite



:2n377uuvno, but it is indicative of the more serious nature of Homophobia compared to the relatively trivial anti-gingerism


:2n377uuvno, it isnt.

i wouldnt disagree, i would hope all clubs would endeavour to cut out all offensive chants, however minor some may consider them, but they will obviously be on a sliding scale of importance and priority.

Spot on. We're being told that ginerism is just banter, because it suits their argument, yet anything racist or homophobic is a no go. It's quite pathetic and is the same attitude people had years ago with black people and gays.

To simply dismiss the point becaus they don't think it is offencive is disgusting. If the RFLs respect policy is all about picking and choosing who they protect then it's absolute bull. But as brayton has mentioned, the RFLs respect policy goes right back to grass roots rugby and includes such things as bullying ginger people. The RFL has set the bar. No one at Cas (at least in the whole) are saying that homophobic chanting is ok. But you cannot pick and choose who you are going to fine when there is little respect on the terraces all through RL, wether it be racism, homobhobic or gingerisms.

No, the issue of anti-ginger chanting was something brought in before the Leeds match even started

and again, you seem to not have even bothered reading what Cas actually got fined for

whats pathetic is to equate all that has happened in the name of racism and homophobia to people chanting about James Graham being ginger.

Do you think Cas would come out looking any better if all chanting that mentioned anything whatsoever about a person was fined?

=#8000FFNo, but the RFL set the precedent and now they must fine any club who are found guilty of abusive chanting then on top of that failing to stop it.

I'm not the one trying to compare which is worse. By your argument, only people who have been chopped into tiny pieces should be protected from abusive comments. Don't say a harsh word to a gay man, but feck the gingers it's only a laugh!

It's a respect policy, respect to all.





Do you think any other club would come out smelling of roses?

do you have the same defence for Andrew Johns? you must believe that was a huge over-reaction? Was Tahu wrong? if not do we just expect people to accept racism? or do we expect the victim of racism to be the one to lose out?



doesnt matter, you dont let Ian Brady got through because Jack the Ripper went free.

If you want to make the point that the RFL dont take chants of 'fat ginger b@st@rd' or 'dirty yorkshire b@st@ard' as serious as homophobic chanting or racist language then you are right, but then in real life, these are much bigger issues, which more extreme attitudes and more serious consequences