You did, and it was a great game (and being a Saints fan I'm glad you won

) But my point is, play off games can be easily won or lost and all this hyperbole about 'champion teams being champions when it matters' is the sort of stuff you find in Greek myth, not in the real world.

Even the all-conquering never say die prowess of the Saints team have the video ref (Micheal Wither's knock on) and the ref (Chris Joynt falling over) to thank for their titles. Yet we decide entire league seasons on these games.

Ok then Barcelona were beaten by Chelsea in last years Champions League semi final.

Consider the majority of the Barcelona players have won the World Cup(the biggest sporting final on Earth), 3 Champions League titles and played in countless El Classico's(the biggest match-up of the biggest sport in the world)

Do you think Barcelona bottled it?

You do 'find a way' to win. Whilst Chris Joynt and Mick Withers knock on became 'the controversy' in the game, there were another 79mins and 59seconds of those games.

Some times you dont find a way to win, in those games you lose. Rarely is that the wrong result.

Wigan could have won, they could have beaten us, had they done so, i would have thought we were unfortunate but we didnt take the victory, we didnt go out there and get it. It wasnt a great performance, we could have done better. Had we lost, it would have been because our passes didnt stick, because we did make some mistakes, there were missed tackles and dropped balls, they would have been responsible for the loss, not the last minute penalty.

Barcelona clearly bottled it.

Biggest two games of the year and the missed two open goals and Messi missed a penalty, they caused themselves to be chasing a game they should have won and played right in to Chelsea's hands.

Must agree. One off games are more prone to being decided by a ref of by players being injured. The FA Cup and Challenge Cup have their histories built on one-off games because the underdog have much more chance of victory than over the course of 9 months when you have to be 'at it' every week, be it sunny, raining, snowing, windy, home or away. If you finish top after all that you deserve to be Champions - everyone agrees with that, unless you're a Leeds fan.

Over the course of a season it does tend to even out, over 80 minutes it is very unlikely.

And of course, the entire game of rugby league for a vast majority of its history.

its mostly football fans who have a top=champions out look.

Oh dear.

I've heard it all. Seriously, are you a Leeds fan?

Pre SL when Wigan dominated from about 1992-1996 - they won about 48 games a season out of 50 nearly every year. I think, if i'm right, they lost a Regal Trophy final one year to Cas, lost a Prem Trophy final to Saints one year as well. Each of them losses cost Wigan 'the Grand Slam' 4 out 4 trophies.

Did Wigan bottle them games in your opinion?

and explain why?

So you believe in an 80 minute game - the best team always wins? 100% of the time?

If they lost to an inferior team and didnt perform to their ability then I would expect so.

I imagine there are occasions when stringing together a bunch of words and phrases you've heard works for you. Unfortunately this isn't one of them.

I wasnt at the meeting in 1906 when they decided to crown the champions by play-off rather than the league so im probably not the person to ask

I think we have different ideas on what 'bottling it' means?

I'm presuming it means not being able to handle the occasion because of the pressure and thus not playing well as you are too nervous?

Isnt any sentence is just stringing together words and phrases you have heard?
Maybe thats why you are talking such nonsense, you are using words and phrases you have never heard before so you dont know what they mean. That explains a lot.

I would have said not performing to your potential in the big games, for what ever reason.

It helps to know their meaning before you use them, otherwise their usage is what we might call "incongruous".


Then perhaps you could specify these words and phrases, by quoting me, and explain my incorrect usage, thus demonstrating to us all your own superior understanding of their meaning.

So if the best team is wiped out by a virus the night before the game, and an entire under 21 side has to play the GF instead, and loses, have that said team 'bottled it'?


Anyway we are going away from the point. The 5th placed team winning the GF has IMO, reduced the regular season to no more than a series of friendlies, the players know that and simply won't be able to give their all next season meaning we will have a sub standard competition.

You could argue the season we have just had has already shown that this has already set in.

I used to say to my football supporting mates that the biggest difference between RL and football was that when 2 big teams play in RL, you nearly always get a cracking game, when 2 big teams play in football, you nearly always get a boring game.

Think of the clashes between Wigan, Wire, Saints and Leeds last season. Was there one good game? I don't think there was, and i think its because the teams are not as bothered about winning in the regular season, 'as long as they win when it matters' i.e the playoffs therefore the regular season does not matter anymore and we are wasting our money going.

Without even giving it much thought, Leeds vs Wire and Wigan vs Wire were excellent. But I understand that doesn't fit your narrative.

Your attempt to be smart didnt quite work there did it. You have simply said the same thing I did. Have you really descended to "I know you are, you said you are, so what am I"?

I have already done that for you once, you ignored it, i assume because you knew you had been caught out. You have also been quite adamant that 'too easy' and 'not hard enough' arent synonyms, which would lead me to believe you dont know what those phrases mean.

Leeds v Wire wasn't excellent.

I remember the game clearly as Cullen and Hemming were harping on about the coaches won't be bothered who picks up the 2 points in this game as its so early in the season.
I think a Leeds player made his debut with about 10 mins to go. Phil Clarke said something along the lines of ' you may be surprised that mcDermott have given someone thier debut with 10 mins to go in such a big game, but you must note that if he makes a mistake in this game and costs Leeds 2 points it doesn't really matter as long as when he plays when it matter in the playoffs he doesn't make that same mistake'

I remember coming on this very forum fuming and venting my disgust.

No Leeds player made their debut against Warrington. And if you've been getting your understanding of Rugby League on what, God forbid, Phil Clarke, says then that would probably explain quite a lot.

You are all idiots

Why the heck has this destroyed SL and made it a series of friendlies

There is 10 teams in this comp that have loyal fans that turn up every week for years and year realistically knowing they won't win any silverware , but they still come to watch there team full of proud RL players who try win every single game....and you guys saying they don't (even though you have no idea what goes on in the changing rooms of SL) doesn't make it so

And DOUGY FFS

In all sports games early on in the season always have comments about "long way to go" "Nobody wins the league in August or Christmas" (In football) etc.... do you expect players to weep after every loss they ever have?

In the CC once the 2 teams get to the final they should play out a league 22 games home and away to see who finishes top because ''da best team is the team dat finishes top'' aint that right dougy?

Actually, it was I who said that you were using words and phrases in a way that suggested you didn't know what they meant, then you attempted to say the same thing about me. The descent was yours, yet you blatantly try to pretend it was mine; how typical. Pretend is about all you've done through the entire thread!


What I said was "it was hard, but not hard enough to reflect their standing in the league" which you attempted to misrepresent as "Leeds had it easy" because that was the only argument you had a response for. Strawmannery is all you know, it seems. But still, if you're that convinced, you can provide that quote eh?