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| The ideal is for hopeful Hull KR and laudable London to get promoted to Super League in 2018 at expense of lowly Leigh and witless Widnes.
Then in 2018 end P & R and reintroduce licencing.
Finally in 2019 it will be necessary to promote terrific Toulouse and turbocharged Toronto into Super League and make it 14 clubs.
Leeds
Huddersfield
Hull FC
Hull KR
Wakefield
Castleford
Wigan
St Helens
Warrington
Salford
London
Catalans
Toulouse
Toronto
Then in 2019 put woeful Wakefield and silly Salford on notice that unless they get a modern stadium (Wakefield) and average home crowds over 5,000 (Salford and Wakefield) they will be relegated in favour of Montreal and perhaps Avignon or Sheffield. At least one of those clubs will have to go to make way for Montreal by 2022.
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| Personally, I would prefer a 12 team league producing 22 games plus Magic Weekend, a six team play-off system and more breaks for international breaks. As for relegation, I'd need to be satisfied that we won't simply end up with a promoted team picking up the voided contracts of the team that comes down, as happened under the old one-up, one-down.
I must be honest and say that I don't have a lot of sympathy for this "we need 27 games a season to be viable" argument. We shouldn't be looking to put more pressure on our players by making them play more games and reducing the quality of the competition - we should be pressuring the clubs to make more from the fixtures that they currently have. A tiny fraction of Super League games sell out, so the effort should be on filling that spare capacity, rather than creating more capacity to be filled by the same people.
Since Super League was introduced, we've increased the number of games, we've got more central funding, the real-terms cost of talent has gone down (by account of a salary cap that doesn't keep pace with inflation) and yet we still have clubs complaining that they need the thick-end of 30 games a year, to cut their academy systems and to scrap their reserve grade teams to remain viable because they are incapable of marketing themselves on both a supporter and corporate level.
No changing of the structure is going to save clubs from problems of their own making.
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| Quote ="JEAN CAPDOUZE"The ideal is for hopeful Hull KR and laudable London to get promoted to Super League in 2018 at expense of lowly Leigh and witless Widnes.
Then in 2018 end P & R and reintroduce licencing.
Finally in 2019 it will be necessary to promote terrific Toulouse and turbocharged Toronto into Super League and make it 14 clubs.
Leeds
Huddersfield
Hull FC
Hull KR
Wakefield
Castleford
Wigan
St Helens
Warrington
Salford
London
Catalans
Toulouse
Toronto
Then in 2019 put woeful Wakefield and silly Salford on notice that unless they get a modern stadium (Wakefield) and average home crowds over 5,000 (Salford and Wakefield) they will be relegated in favour of Montreal and perhaps Avignon or Sheffield. At least one of those clubs will have to go to make way for Montreal by 2022.'"
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| Quote ="Jake the Peg"if we have 14 teams we'll have lots of hammerings and even more meaningless games. The current format give everyone something to play for up to round 23 then all but 2 or 3 a chance of making either the top 4 in SL or avoiding the drop in the middle 8's.
With 14 team the season will be over for half of them by round 14'"
ER I think your team has had a few hammerings just lately and you playing in 12 teams so what would be different
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| Quote ="Snowy"Why are people obsessed about a million pound game?
13 teams, one straight up and 1 down. Not fair on any Championship club to play a full season just to get smashed in one game.
Can't help but think this is all to protect Catalans and embrace Toronto.'"
You may be right about Catalans Toronto 2019
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| Personally I have never liked the Super 8's. I prefer straight forward relegation / promotion.
RFL - please stop messing around with the structure of the game.
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| Quote ="JEAN CAPDOUZE"The ideal is for hopeful Hull KR and laudable London to get promoted to Super League in 2018 at expense of lowly Leigh and witless Widnes.
Then in 2018 end P & R and reintroduce licencing.
Finally in 2019 it will be necessary to promote terrific Toulouse and turbocharged Toronto into Super League and make it 14 clubs.
Leeds
Huddersfield
Hull FC
Hull KR
Wakefield
Castleford
Wigan
St Helens
Warrington
Salford
London
Catalans
Toulouse
Toronto
Then in 2019 put woeful Wakefield and silly Salford on notice that unless they get a modern stadium (Wakefield) and average home crowds over 5,000 (Salford and Wakefield) they will be relegated in favour of Montreal and perhaps Avignon or Sheffield. At least one of those clubs will have to go to make way for Montreal by 2022.'"
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| Quote ="Chris.Taylor"The crowds are down, because people are getting bored of the robotic style of play and the standard of the game dropping across all levels.'"
Best or very good players going to NRL or Union because we aren't paying players enough to stay, and thus don't entice Aussie stars to come over.
Thursday night games.
The constant changing and changing and changing and loving changing of the format of the game is getting beyond tiresome.
Getting rid of the shoulder charge has had a big effect on the excitement for me as well.
Also players diving and pretending to be injured like wendyballers.
The rucks - although a little better this season - have been an absolute mess in SL for a good few years now making the game very ugly to watch and slow.
All contributing to lower crowds
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| Quote ="cravenpark1"You may be right about Catalans Toronto 2019'"
When you think about it - having Toronto in SL would be the perfect foil for the RFL to go to 13 teams. When it's your turn to have a "bye" weekend this is filtered into the fixture list to accommodate to additional travel time, jet-lag, climatisation and so on.
For effect, you will have between 10 and 14 days space for the Toronto away fixture considering the "bye" weekend.
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| Quote ="Tigerade"When you think about it - having Toronto in SL would be the perfect foil for the RFL to go to 13 teams. When it's your turn to have a "bye" weekend this is filtered into the fixture list to accommodate to additional travel time, jet-lag, climatisation and so on.
For effect, you will have between 10 and 14 days space for the Toronto away fixture considering the "bye" weekend.'"
Great idea, but this is RL...that'll be far too logical!
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| Quote ="Willzay"Oh aye top four play off, and a million pound match, with teams 5-13 nothing to play off, yes what a ingenious idea to boost attendances, have you ever thought of applying to the RFL? You should do, you'd fit in with the rest of the morons.
'"
Teams in positions 5-13 will either be fighting to avoid the million pound game or fighting to get into the top 4.
We have had an unsuccessful top 8 play off system. We've had an unsuccessful super 8's system. But the games that are the most successful and keep fans coming back week in week out with the highest attendances are regular league games in round 1-23, this part of the season can be increased to rounds 1-27.
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| Quote ="JEAN CAPDOUZE"The ideal is for [iHopeful Hull KR[/i and [iLaughable London[/i to get promoted to Super League in 2018 at expense of [iLegendary Leigh[/i and [iCalamitous Catalans !!![/i.
Then in 2018 end P & R & [ithrow away the key ![/i
Finally in 2019 it will be necessary to promote [iTerrible Toulouse[/i and [iTitanic Toronto[/i *did anyone see that iceberg* ? into Super League and make it 14 clubs.
Leeds
Huddersfield
Hull FC
Hull KR
Wakefield
Castleford
Wigan
St Helens
Warrington
Salford
[iLondonderry[/i
[iChorley Lynx[/i
[iTamworth Tigers[/i
[iCoventry Cavaliers[/i
Then in 2019 put woeful Wakefield and silly Salford on notice that unless they get a modern stadium (Wakefield) and average home crowds over 5,000 (Salford and Wakefield) they will be relegated in favour of Montreal and perhaps Avignon or Sheffield. At least one of those clubs will have to go to make way for Montreal by 2022.'"
FTFY
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| There are a lot of nutty Leigh fans on this forum. Lowly Leigh represents the parochial past in Super League and the future in the Championship, along with witless Widnes.
Laudable London, terrific Toulouse, and turbocharged Toronto represent the future of Super League.
That is why we must restore licencing and get the progressive teams into Super League.
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| Ste, do me a favour and refrain from quoting the pseudo frog because I've got the clown on ignore.
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| Quote ="JEAN CAPDOUZE"There are a lot of nutty Leigh fans on this forum. Lowly Leigh represents the parochial past in Super League and the future in the Championship, along with witless Widnes.
Laudable London, terrific Toulouse, and turbocharged Toronto represent the future of Super League.
That is why we must restore licencing and get the progressive teams into Super League.'"
Your written English is very good considering you are French, I am very impressed
Unfortunately the content leaves a lot to be desired - but do carry on
A nutty Leigh fan - from Leigh ooops thats Lowly Leigh
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| Ok so I've come up with an idea which may seem a bit wacky at first, but I think it could potentially work.
For this theory I have used the current 12 super league teams, and also hull kr, London, Toronto and Toulouse.
So rather than a league of 16, we have 2 groups of 8. Each season the two groups are picked by a random draw, however for at least the first year I would have 3 pots of teams.
Pot A
Warrington
Wigan
Widnes
Salford
Saints
Leigh
Pot B
Leeds
Huddersfield
Castleford
Wakefield
Hull fc
Hull kr
Pot C
Catalan
Toulouse
Toronto
London
Each group of 8 would consist of 3 from pot A and 3 from pot B, with 2 from pot C. This will ensure that each team has equal trips across the Pennines and make sure the visits to the 'expansion' teams are equal.
Now the starting groups are sorted, each team plays home and away, 14 fixtures each. Once these fixtures are complete, the top 4 from both groups come together, likewise with the bottom 4 from each group.
Now in their respective groups, 1st/5th start with 4 points, 2nd/6th with 3 points, and so on. Now obviously there will be 2 teams on the same points so their starting position will be based on their points difference. The reason that the starting positions is important is the fixtures for this section will remain in the grid used to calculate the super 8's fixtures currently. This is a further 7 games.
Once these 7 fixtures are complete, in the top group, the top 4 have the playoff semi finals then grand final.
In the bottom 8, teams try to secure safety. The bottom team at the end will be replaced by the winner of the championship (providing that the championship winners can match certain criteria, mainly that they can secure the step up financially).
This will reduce the number of fixtures and we can remove the double fixtures at easter, freeing up space for internationals or a separate competition etc.
Now I know it may sound similar to the current format with me talking of 8's and splitting, however if you actually think about this it's quite a different format that I think could work. There will always be people that say there will be dead rubbers but it's impossible to get a system where every game means something.
(As a side note I would make it compulsory for every team to run a reserve team, who's fixtures would be the same as the first team until the split, and have these games played as curtain raisers to the first team game.)
I'd be interested to hear other people's thoughts on this.
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| Quote ="Tigerade"When you think about it - having Toronto in SL would be the perfect foil for the RFL to go to 13 teams. When it's your turn to have a "bye" weekend this is filtered into the fixture list to accommodate to additional travel time, jet-lag, climatisation and so on.
For effect, you will have between 10 and 14 days space for the Toronto away fixture considering the "bye" weekend.'"
But the RFL are much more likely to have Cas playing away in Toronto on Saturday followed by Leeds on Thursday night
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| i hate pies is onto something here. It's not new but it should have been developed a decade ago.
Split into two conferences of 8 (Super league Europe and Super League International) with teams applying for a place in one of them. After playing everyone over 14 games, the top 4 of each conference plays the corresponding top 4 home & away. This is mirrored by the bottom 4.
Points won against the teams in your four are carried forward and so by the end of the 22 game season you will have played everyone home and away in the top or bottom section and determined the LLS or relegation places.
All 8 in play off for championship and bottom 2 in relegation games v championship teams.
Simple, and with the added benefit that there is no place for the "Magic" weekend.
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| Quote ="rlfan"i hate pies is onto something here. It's not new but it should have been developed a decade ago.
Split into two conferences of 8 (Super league Europe and Super League International) with teams applying for a place in one of them. After playing everyone over 14 games, the top 4 of each conference plays the corresponding top 4 home & away. This is mirrored by the bottom 4.
Points won against the teams in your four are carried forward and so by the end of the 22 game season you will have played everyone home and away in the top or bottom section and determined the LLS or relegation places.
All 8 in play off for championship and bottom 2 in relegation games v championship teams.
Simple, and with the added benefit that there is no place for the "Magic" weekend.'"
Call me old school but, why not just play everyone home and away and if you finish top, you are champions
We can then have a top 6/8 play off to have premiership winners and if we want the bottom half clubs involved, we could have a "plate" competition for the bottom 6/8 clubs, with their "final" played as a curtain raiser at Old Trafford, maybe include the top 2 clubs from the Championship in the plate ?
The conference idea may look good on paper but, we already have too much repetition of fixtures with some clubs playing each other 4/5 times a season.
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| I honestly don't understand the absolute desperation some in RL have to devalue the biggest game and biggest prize we have. Huge numbers of people watch and attend and talk about the GF it gets relatively huge coverage and exposure and for some reason people want to turn it into an end of season secondary comp.
There's too much people are trying to achieve with the structure that simply cannot be achieved under any structure whether it's a brilliant one or like this a terrible and stupid one there is only so much that can be achieved.
Franchising is clearly the better 'business approach' but some are still clinging to what they perceive as the romance of P+R. That bridge will never be divided. So either we watch the damage of the slow motion car crash that is P+R unfold or we rip the bandage off and go for franchising. Whether it is 12 or 14, conferences, splits or whatever is playing around the edges. There is no magic format that solves the problems. There are certainly some ideas that don't help, like a third of your season been planned on a week's notice clearly is a dumb idea.
If the game can't choose one or the other, choose both. Franchise clubs who meet high criteria or strategic aims and exempt them from relegation and the clubs who don't are relegated through one up one down.
Leeds Wigan Wire saints Hull Les Catalans Toulouse and Toronto would go through the franchise system. Everyone else wouldn t have standards to meet but also would be at risk of getting relegated. So clubs can chpose which system they operate under. If you get relegated from 8th because the clubs below you were franchised. Tough your fault for not being meeting the standards. If you want to guarantee you don't get relegated. Be good enough to join the franchised clubs.
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"Call me old school but, why not just play everyone home and away and if you finish top, you are champions
We can then have a top 6/8 play off to have premiership winners and if we want the bottom half clubs involved, we could have a "plate" competition for the bottom 6/8 clubs, with their "final" played as a curtain raiser at Old Trafford, maybe include the top 2 clubs from the Championship in the plate ?
The conference idea may look good on paper but, we already have too much repetition of fixtures with some clubs playing each other 4/5 times a season.'"
Your crazy ideas will never work
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"Call me old school but, why not just play everyone home and away and if you finish top, you are champions
'"
No no no that's far to complicated
What we need is a league of 12 teams that splits into 2 leagues of 6 after 22 rounds plus 3 Magic weekends. Points are reset to 0 and another 10 rounds are played in each mini league. The top 5 teams from each league then enter a 10 team play-off with the fixtures decided by a random draw. The two teams not involved play in the MPG with the loser relegated and the winner awarded a place in the Grand Final. The winner of the play-offs takes the other Grand Final place. The Grand Final is played at OT but regardless of the result the winner is decided by a public vote in a Saturday night style show hosted by Ant and Dec.
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| Quote ="wire-flyer"No no no that's far to complicated
What we need is a league of 12 teams that splits into 2 leagues of 6 after 22 rounds plus 3 Magic weekends. Points are reset to 0 and another 10 rounds are played in each mini league. The top 5 teams from each league then enter a 10 team play-off with the fixtures decided by a random draw. The two teams not involved play in the MPG with the loser relegated and the winner awarded a place in the Grand Final. The winner of the play-offs takes the other Grand Final place. The Grand Final is played at OT but regardless of the result the winner is decided by a public vote in a Saturday night style show hosted by Ant and Dec.'"
Just to add to the excitement, the viewing public could chose the winner, just using the actual score as a guide and then they could play the best team in the Universe in a three match "winner take all" series.
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| P+R in 1 up 1 down is past its sell by date and wouldn't work unless we had more players and more money in the game. The way forward to grow the game is franchising in some form.
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| Quote ="LifeLongHKRFan"P+R in 1 up 1 down is past its sell by date and wouldn't work unless we had more players and more money in the game. The way forward to grow the game is franchising in some form.'"
You may have to put some meat on the bones of that one.
Other sports, notably Football (automatic relegation and promotion, with additional promotion through play offs), Cricket, automatic promotion and relegation. even, Union has automatic promotion and relegation (although there is minimum criteria for promotion, which can "save" a relegated club).
However, IF we are to expand the game with the likes of Toronto and Toulouse, then some form of Franchising/Licensing makes more sense as it would give the "expansion" clubs time to develop.
The current system, although less than straight forward, does involve just about every club something to play for throughout the whole of the season, even though it has some obvious faults.
If we do want Toulouse and Toronto in our competition then, I agree that some form of Franchising seems a better option but, this will put us back to where we were before the current system was introduced.
Maybe Franchising, with a 5 year review and defined targets for growth etc, allowing new clubs to join and failing clubs to be dropped ?
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