I agree with Smokey for the most part here but that was a good post barnacle

they spent more time in the past 10 years in SL than leigh did.

id rather a shot at 10% of a population of 11 million than 100% of a population of 60,000

PSG went bust in 1997, which at my last count was 12 years ago. HTH.

2 years in SL.

1 year for leigh.

but dont worry, rather than telling us how we can make leigh a stronger RL club, you guys have decided all you learned at leigh and apply it at expansion clubs

judging by leighs results we should just take your advice and reverse it

Two years in Super League, no longer exist.

One year in Super League, still have a club to support.

I know which one I'd rather have.

Last time I checked, PSG haven't been in the SL (or even in existance) in this decade, century or millennium (which is 10 years old in 3 weeks). Leigh have.


I'd rather a shot at 100% of something small than 10% of nothing.

Mostly by ill-informed, prejudiced people on the VT, with an axe to grind against the club, like you. These people seem to think that every anti-expansionist post on here is from a Widnes fan.


The first one is wrong, because it is a complete generalization. The second one is only a judgment on one fan, and my thoughts on his/her motives for writing it are based on that one fan, and not every single Wakey fan. As there wasn’t any cogent argument put forward by that fan, for his views expressed within that one post, I can only see it as an ignorant and wrong-headed rant.

Do you agree with what he wrote?

Why did you think it was worth linking to, within the context of this thread?

Do you think that I am an anti-expansionist merely because I’m a Widnes fan?

Brilliant post!

Totally agree. I can’t see it working any other way. Only an idiot would consider making the same old mistakes every time with nothing more than a shrug of the shoulders. The RFL need to think hard and take a long-term approach toward expansion, instead of the quick fix Bourne out of desperation and muddled thinking,

Only an idiot or a "staunch expansionist" eh Pepe?

What the sport needs is a club that can be classed as an 'expansion' to Super League, with a long RL tradition, lot's of history, an ever-growing fanbase (with plenty still un-tapped), success on the field, real progress off the field, financially sound and an ambitious board of directors.

Hang on a minute ................

Barrow for Super League 2012

That's not really expansion though, is it?

I do agree that a Cumbrian presence in SL would be very desirable, and perhaps the RFL should concentrate on strengthening RL out-posts that have been neglected over the years. Barrow are more like Les Catalans than the Crusaders imo. RL is part of its heritage and traditions and people there can easily identify themselves with it.

I would suggest Barnacle Bill's the post was dealing with a way to introduce clubs in areas with little, or no, tradition of the game. Only a fool would suggest we shouldn’t try and do this. The only question is the method. Bill's post is spot on imo.

Good luck to Barrow, but your ground is just not up to SL standard. If that, and their general, infrastructure is improved, then they should be a shoo-in for 2015.

.

I really don't know which way the sport is heading. My fear is that by 2015 there'll be a lot more competition, not only from England, but also from Scotland, Ireland, France and even Spain.

Even though most fans of other clubs are totally writing us off for 2012, it might be our only chance. It's only going to get harder to win the NR Cup or get to the GF and dare I say it 'tick the box'.

What happens when most of the 10 clubs in the Championship have the required stadia, infrastructure and decent fanbase ??

as ive said before, why should anybody with half a brain, let alone a full one listen to leigh fans when it comes to talking about what makes a club succesful

lets make a rule that you should only comment on other clubs fortunes - especially expansion clubs - once your own club can average crowds over 3000 and has been in SL for 2 consecutive years

.

P&R between SL1 and SL2. Franchising between SL2 and Championship.

i'd live with that

Depends what it is you're expanding , the sport or SL , as many consider the sport to be SL then it is , the likes of you and me know better

it does spoil all the expansion threads seeing the same anti expansion people posting the same stuff over and over

we get it that you guys are anti expansion at sl level, loud and clear.

As I have said before you know jack about the British game and its fans, your comments just keep reaffirming this.

None of the flat-cappers as we are branded are against expansion of the game, in fact we embrace the idea. However, what we are against is half-ar$ed, ill-thought out, pie in the sky ideas which pay no heed to good business sense and are at the expense of areas where the game is strong at grass roots level. You may like the idea of building a house on sand, but the result is always the same. And before you recite the tired old line of Cats success, just remember that part of France has been strong at grass roots level for a long time.

Back to the original thread, I think Crusaders SL application next time around will be on shakey ground unless they can show some big crowds. Location may be reasonable, but my fear is that its just too much expectation too soon. If they fail in the 2012 round, it think it will be the end for them. However, I am hopeful there will be a Bridgend based team in the championship to continue to build the game down there steadily and without over expectation from the RFL.

i think fax fans should only comment on CC once their crowds can actually break 3000.

and the fact that 2 or 3 season back the club was almost going broke as well, show some financial stability as well.

i just dont understand how you guys who support failed clubs have the nerve to question other clubs. its like the captain of the titanic telling other captains how to run their ships

There you go again just making yourself look like a plonker.

Fax have been around since 1873 which tells me RL has a long history in the town, as well as one of the strongest amateur setups. I also think you'll find that if you look back through history every club has had times of hardship. Bradford almost going bust and surviving on poor crowds, Wigan and Hull both in the old second division in the late 70's early 80's to name but a few. The one thing that stands out is the resilience of British clubs and their ability to bounce back, just refer to Hull KR as a prime example. Fax are no different and are on the up again.

And as for my comments on CC, I think if you take note of other comments I have made that I am an RL fan first and foremost as are 99% of flat-cappers. I dont want to see any club go bust, I just have sensible views about how the game should be expanded. As for CC at Wrexham I just think they will have their work cut out to put together a strong case in the time before the next round of franchises are awarded. Oh and did you see my comment about hoping Bridgend gets a team in the championship? Thought not, because your observational skills are poor, your arguments stale and one dimentional and dare I say it, you have very little to offer this discussion.

an expansionist is someone who thinks that the RFL should take reasonable steps to expand SL when the opportunity presents itself.

not make wishy washy comments about being pro expansion when an expansion club develops grassroots etc and never actually identifying when this has ever happened in england.

the people that make these comments are mostly fans of competing NL1 and 2 clubs who have largely failed over 100 years so they come across as bitter, jaded and biased.

the RFL made a good decision to admit CC into SL. admitting any club into SL is a risk. the risk was well worth it.

when fax become more than a failed club your comments will mean more. now its all just hot air

1873 - 2009 and the crowds are that pathetic?

the club was almost broke recently too ....

thats a great 136 years of building in your heartlands.

Oh dally you really do come from the land of the pixies. Unlike Australia Britain does have strong Rugby Union and Football codes, both of which have been entrenched for many many years and provide a lot of resistance. As such, just parachuting a new club into a distant land and expecting it to be an overnight success at the top level doesnt work. If you can think back to your primary school lesson today I am sure your teacher told you about how you have to sew a seed, nurture it and watch it grow over time. Same principle applies to RL in Britain.

By the way the NL1 & NL2 clubs who have supposedly failed over 100 years might diagree (you show your lack of knowledge of the game once more). Try researching the league and cup successes of Leigh, Widnes, Batley, Oldham, Fax, etc over that period. Also, look up the world record crowd for a single RL game (not the 2-game crap the Aussies fixed). You might find Fax in there (102,000 against Warrington, with an estimated 20,000 more who broke a gate down to enter). Seems to me they might have just played a big part in making the game what it is today.

In the past the RFL have missed the opportunity to establish the game in some more plausible locations which could have played a big part in expansion. At the time the money wasnt there as it is today, otherwise the RL map in the UK could have been quite different. The Cardiff experiment looked very promising at first, as did Nottingham, Carlisle and Mansfield. Kent Invicta not so much. Throughout the flatcappers supported the RFL's efforts, travelling the length & breadth of the country and putting thier money into those coffers. Over recent years there has been a growing league structure at the lower levels in places like Coventry (depsite the problems at the Bears), Birmingham, Leicester and Oxford all offering the potential for further development. If approached with a plan covering a sensible time period, who knows where this could lead. However, the current RFL heads dont have enough vision to see this.

Just a little history and geography lesson for you there dally, which I am sure you will manipulate to make some form of dull, unimaginitive counter against some other poster in future.