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| Quote ="Alex J"Under franchising we'd be quite safe in that company. But in actual promotion and relegation you're right, it's going to be a bumfight.'"
I know its prob a typo but that made me
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| Quote ="cod'ead"I can't understand that one. Sky decide which games will be broadcast. If they can't look at the fixture list and pick two games each week that should not be blowout scores, then they shouldn't blame the league structure'"
They have to select a variety of games, they have to show each team so many times, which results in a lot of naff games. This will occur less often in a 12 team league.
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| If only there was a way of introducing a player drafting system similarly to the NFL in the USA.
The top young players are picked in turn to go to teams and spread out the talent to ultimately create a very competitive league. Balance it with experienced players moving around.
Considering as the league is going to shrink back to Lancs and Yorks it wouldn't involve players getting home sick by living more than a couple of hours drive from their parents.
Shame that won't happen, as club's wouldn't invest in a youth structure to go and give away players..... unless the RFL or purchasing club reimbursed them. I get that this is essentially the same as happens now (with player movements) but if they made it a big deal at the beginning of each year (again like the NFL do) then all teams would have a fair crack at the talent.
The end game has to be a competitive league where each year any team can win the GF #pieintheskydreaming
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| Quote ="JonB95"They have to select a variety of games, they have to show each team so many times, which results in a lot of naff games. This will occur less often in a 12 team league.'"
As I understand it each team has to be shown at home at least twice. Even with that restriction there are some strange picks for the TV games.
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| The success of franchising was never going to be measured over one round, or even two. It was about giving clubs the opportunity to stabilise and build slowly without constantly having to think short-term and worry about relegation.
Similarly, the intention was to set standards which clubs outside the top division knew they had to strive for in order to have a chance of getting a licence.
Widnes are the perfect example of how movement between the two tiers was supposed to work, yet all that is being tossed away with the typical short-term thinking that is unfortunately prevalent in this sport.
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| It hasn't worked and the damage was greater than the gains
SL clubs formed a queue after winning a licence to go belly up, Bradford wakey and Cas all play out of hovels still and god knows where London will end up. The final piece was abandoning reserves to save money ......... Yep you can see the success dropping off the mounds of gold
All this happening as the Championships get less money, a stupid tv deal and slowly die
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"
Widnes are the perfect example of how movement between the two tiers was supposed to work, yet all that is being tossed away with the typical short-term thinking that is unfortunately prevalent in this sport.'"
Catalans are a great example of how the same thing is achievable with P&R. Just give the promoted team one years protection.
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| I look forward to seeing the likes of featherstone , Leigh, Oldham and Halifax challenging for the SL title. What a joke. Maybe this is just the rfl's way of culling some of the lower SL clubs as any club relegated is going to be screwed. Here we go with the yoyo, lose all your players when relegated, sign a new team when promoted farce again.
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| One years exemption from relegation for the team that wins promotion is a cracking idea. That gives them 2 years which is only 12 months less than licencing. It's like meeting it half way.
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| for several years ive been looking forward to the likes of wakey cas hkr salford etc challenging for the title but hey ho it hasnt happen and theres nothing to suggest its ever going to
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| Quote ="Dougy"One years exemption from relegation for the team that wins promotion is a cracking idea. That gives them 2 years which is only 12 months less than licencing. It's like meeting it half way.'"
So the answer to the 'too many meaningless games' canard is to give one club an entire season of meaningless games?
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| Quote ="j.c"for several years ive been looking forward to the likes of wakey cas hkr salford etc challenging for the title but hey ho it hasnt happen and theres nothing to suggest its ever going to'"
I suspect you could have said the same about Warrington and Huddersfield up until a few years ago.
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| Quote ="cod'ead"I wonder what will happen when they next sit down with Sky and are told: "There you go, here's 6/7ths of your previous package". How will they divvy the money up then?'"
That's easy, they just won't give Bradford any like this year. Level playing field or what?
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"The success of franchising was never going to be measured over one round, or even two. It was about giving clubs the opportunity to stabilise and build slowly without constantly having to think short-term and worry about relegation.
Similarly, the intention was to set standards which clubs outside the top division knew they had to strive for in order to have a chance of getting a licence.
Widnes are the perfect example of how movement between the two tiers was supposed to work, yet all that is being tossed away with the typical short-term thinking that is unfortunately prevalent in this sport.'"
Exactly my thoughts. People are too impatient and think changes take a few years when in reality they can take a decade or more. I believe this season is first in which were seeing the fruits of licensing and we've had more "shock" results than we have for years.
The league needs more games, not less. It also needs an extra cup competition started later in the season so the lower league clubs still has something to aspire for.
People keep repeating there's not enough talent; I see it completely different. There's lots of young talent coming through the ranks in the last few years. Notably at my hometown Castleford who fielded the majority of homegrown players in both teams when playing Hull FC weeks back.
We have a good exciting league and from what I can see there's only London and Salford not competing every week. Salford will be a different story next season which just leaves London who we all know are a failure.
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| Quote ="HXSparky"This whole thread (in the main, there are some sensible comments in amongst), is so, so funny. The SL chairmen have decided that a change of the league structure to 2x12 in the top two divisions is the right thing to do, which seems to have resulted in (some of) the current SL team fans starting to panic that their "hallowed" position in the top tier is now under threat.
Bring it on - P&R is at the heart of British sport. Agreed, we need to sort out salary caps and Sky and Premier Sports funding (rewind, the Championship clubs don't get anything from Premier...), but the proposal (I personally favour a straight P&R between 2 leagues of 12) IMHO is the way to go for a more vibrant and exciting competition from top to bottom.'" It's nothing to do with 'SL fans', it's to do with the fact that the whole thing is completely and utterly stupid. FWIW there's not much point gloating because this system will probably see your club go bust.
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| Quote ="headhunter"It's nothing to do with 'SL fans', it's to do with the fact that the whole thing is completely and utterly stupid. FWIW there's not much point gloating because this system will probably see your club go bust.'"
Didn't you get the memo? Apparently there are loads of investors lined up to fund all these championship clubs but the fact there was no promotion stopped them.
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| Quote ="Hear Ye!"
The top young players are picked in turn to go to teams and spread out the talent to ultimately create a very competitive league. Balance it with experienced players moving around.
Considering as the league is going to shrink back to Lancs and Yorks it wouldn't involve players getting home sick by living more than a couple of hours drive from their parents.
'"
Can you really get that homesick from one end of the M62 to another, or closer?
More seriously, the problem with a draft is that because the game exists abroad and because a similar (inferior!) sport exists which will allow them to go where they like, within reason. For the NFL or AFL, there's not much competition.
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| Quote ="Starbug"Woah there mate, this isnt being done to satisfy the non SL clubs, this is a SL clubs decision, blame your SL buddies, not us lot down here'"
but they were the catalist they havent stoped bleating for the last 3 years how they get no money the game is dying and it is all the fault of no p&r it has nothing to do with franchising but all to do with championship clubs not being able to grasp the consept of running the club in a proper maner when this kicks in who of the championship clubs can go full time answer non of them so a 2x12 is a non starter as all it will do is wipe out the lower tear within 3 years i dont know if widnes will stay up next year but if they dont then it will mean the club will fold very fast as all the players we have developed will go to one of the sl sides
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| Quote ="year of the viking"but they were the catalist they havent stoped bleating for the last 3 years how they get no money the game is dying and it is all the fault of no p&r it has nothing to do with franchising but all to do with championship clubs not being able to grasp the consept of running the club in a proper maner when this kicks in who of the championship clubs can go full time answer non of them so a 2x12 is a non starter as all it will do is wipe out the lower tear within 3 years i dont know if widnes will stay up next year but if they dont then it will mean the club will fold very fast as all the players we have developed will go to one of the sl sides'"
Complete rubbish, you are seriously suggesting the SL clubs owners are doing this because of ' whinging ' from below?
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| WHAT A RIDICULOUS POST....you have NO memory my scouse friend !!
Widnes Vikings go into administration
WIDNES Vikings are set to start next season with a six point deduction before they even begin their National League One campaign.
Widnes Vikings are set to start next season with a six point deduction before they even begin their National League One campaign.
That's the likely outcome after the club went into administration yesterday.
However, despite a degree of doom and gloom in the town, sources close to the Vikings were keen to stress that going into administration was the best way forward for the club.
Already some of the current directors are believed to be planning a rescue package.
Widnes' plight came into the public domain following their defeat by Castleford Tigers in Sunday's Co-Operative National League One grand final.
The game was billed as the £10million match with a place in Super League at stake and a strong likelihoood of a franchise to stay in the top flight for many years to come.
Had the Vikings won, many of the 2007 squad would have stayed on board to take up Super League contracts.
But, given the underlying financial position of the club, none are believed to have been pre-contracted to play in National League One in the event of Widnes failing to make promotion.
As a consequence, many are moving on to pastures new.
The destination of other Vikings players is likely to come to light over the coming days.
A statement released by the Vikings read: "Following Sunday's disappointing defeat, the board met at length on Monday and Tuesday to discuss the current financial position of the club.
"After these meetings the decision was regrettably taken to put Widnes Rugby League Football Club Ltd into administration.
"This decision will hopefully allow the administrator the opportunity to achieve a sale of the club and, with it, the potential to keep professional rugby league alive in the borough where it has been an integral part of people's lives for five generations and given great enjoyment.
"The administrator ill be seeking offers and already board members have confirmed their intention to put together a package to take the club forward into 2008 and beyond."
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| OK, OK, let's all agree, it's the power of The Championship clubs that have forced 14 SL chairmen to kill the game by bringing back P&R. Championship clubs also shot Kennedy and faked a moon landing (by cunningly using the Odsal ground at night).
Oh and Gilder when you say [i"Similarly, the intention was to set standards which clubs outside the top division knew they had to strive for in order to have a chance of getting a licence" [/i- do you think the intention to set those standards [uwas achieved by every licence holder? [/u It's OK setting standards for the great unwashed who live below stairs but when the toffs start reeking of fish it's a bit rich to start mocking the under butler.
If every licence holder was true to their franchise status and lived up to their "super" billing we wouldn't be having this discussion. It's they who have folded their deck, no-one else and certainly not the Championship clubs, holding their one dollar casino chip.
And before Headhunter trots out his usual boring retort FWIW my own club is not worthy of a SL place either and even on current form wouldn't be challenging for promotion any time soon. I don't have a problem with that. Unlike Headhunter, I attend matches and the view from down here isn't so bad IMHO. I enjoy it. Don't be dragging Championship clubs into the SL failure blame game - we're not even in it!
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| Quote ="headhunter"It's nothing to do with 'SL fans', it's to do with the fact that the whole thing is completely and utterly stupid. FWIW there's not much point gloating because this system will probably see your club go bust.'"
I'm not gloating, I just think it's rather funny that some (and I admit far from all) SL fans are now getting a tad nervous that their protected place in SL is under threat.
FWIW from me, "my club" is managing to operate within it's means (as are others in the Championship) without any funding from any TV companies, or indeed any major cash injection from individual sponsors. Perhaps if SL clubs learned that they need to balance their budget properly, the game might be in a better place?
...and before you start, previous administrations at Halifax have proved absolutely how to bring a club to it's knees...
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| Out of interest why do people think the SL chairmen have voted for this? I know our chairman has been going on about a smaller SL for years as he thinks it will mean avg players won't be able to command as high a salary if there are less employers.
I am guessing every chairman thinks they will be ok and avoid relegation but three are going to regret the vote. I wonder how unanimous it was?
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| Quote ="JB Down Under"Out of interest why do people think the SL chairmen have voted for this? I know our chairman has been going on about a smaller SL for years as he thinks it will mean avg players won't be able to command as high a salary if there are less employers.
I am guessing every chairman thinks they will be ok and avoid relegation but three are going to regret the vote. I wonder how unanimous it was?'"
IMO SL chairman voted for this because the amount of meaningless games is what is killing clubs.
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| I find this a very strange mentality. Playing to a avoid relegation adds very little meaning to each game for the majority of clubs. Every result has meaning, reaching the playoffs has meaning, finishing higher than your rival has meaning, winning the games you expected to lose and losing the games you expected to win has meaning. Only one team can win SL so revel in the week to week contest your club is engaged in.
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