If that is the case then we have NO HOPE at all.

Sorry but this guy IS DEFINITELY NOT international standard.

Has Ryan Hoffman got information we've not. Are they spying on the England training sessions?

They just interviewed him on Sky Sports News and he said, "England have got a great balance. With Peacock and Morley in the forwards and the danger of Tomkins and McGuire in the backs".

Eastmond to lose his place to Tomkins or Myler? Or throw Eastmond in somewhere else and drop someone else perhaps?

It's not even a big four anymore. The only players who will have played in a number of games with anywhere near the intensity of last Saturdays game are Saints and Leeds players. The games between these two have been a step up in intensity compared to almost every other game played in SL for a few years now. Wigan stepped up occasionally last year, but bar that, for the likes of Shenton, no matter how talented, it will be a major step up.

Against a French side that were blowing out of their backsides.
I can see your point

You certainly like to defend Shenton. Fiar enough, I can understand that.

Let's face it though, Myler has the potential to be a top, top player. If Shenton plays at the weekend that will make him the worst centre to have played in a England / GB - Australia game.

His performances in an international shirt up to now have not been of the same standard as his Leeds performances IMO due to nerves and a fear of messing up and also playing in a structure which he is not as familiar with. Surely nobody can argue that IF he performs to the level he does for Leeds then he is worthy of his place? Also we do not have a suitable alternative, O'loughlin would have been one but he is injured.

I don't have an axe to grind against any player, but playing as well as you do for your club is not good enough at international level.

A 15-strong team? Are you suggesting reintroducing flankers to the England scrum?

Think you need to add that up again. Use toes as well if needed

Will he hell as be the worst england centre to have played against aus, there is a centre far worse in the sqaud that has played against australia ffs.

Its not so much about defending a player as opposed contradicting rubbish, i've read on these boards that shenton doesnt have any attacking threat even though he outscored every single centre in sl, does that mean there is no centre in sl that offers any attacking threat? then i'll read that shentons not big enough so people suggest the much smaller eastmond! Then i'll read that shentons defence isnt upto scratch despite getting through the most defensive work of any back so far (something like 40 tackles in the last 2 matches) and has missed far less tackles than most of the england backs.

meh

but you wont concede he hasnt looked vaguely threatening against two pretty poor sides playing in the best side he has ever played in?

Shenton isnt the answer, neither is Atkins, Gleeson and Senior at least were for a while, Pryce could yet still be if we can get a coach with the strength of character to bend him to his will

I will, will you also concede that apart from one occasion he hast been given the ball in a remotly threatening position? for instance briscoe scored against wales when the ball could have quite easily have gone to shenton but the pass cut him out so briscoe scored another example against wales shenton was unmarked outwide and moore decided to go himself against 3 welsh defenders. Not once has shenton been put into space by the half backs, which is shocking, espcecially when you consider that against france the top scoring winger and centre in sl were paired together and then largely ignored by our 'tactics'.

If only because Karl Pratt played on the wing rather than at centre the other year (though that might have against the Kiwis?)

International players would have made things happen, especially against the welsh

If you remember the top scoring winger, though ignored by our tactics, made something happen,

If Shenton cant impose himself on a game against the Welsh and French, if he cant make space for himself against the Welsh and French, if he still needs to be put in space against even the Welsh and French

He isnt international quality

I'd go with

Eastmond (Briscoe didn't do anything wrong, but I think Eastmond could really improve our kick returns)
Fox (Agiain Briscoe didn't do much wrong, but I just feel Fox is more physically (sp) ready for this level)
Smith (better option than Bridge, and is a big game player)
Shenton (our best option here, although he's a bit short of form, we need some continuity)
Hall (no brainer really)
Tompkins (our best half at taking on the line, plus he gives us a little bit extra physically)
McGuire (his best position at this level, needs to improve on last weeks display - but most of the team do)
Morley (thought he was outstanding against France)
Roby (can play 80 minutes, and Moore has been 5hite for 3 months)
Peacock
Ellis
Burgess
Sinfield (Hopefully he can carry on from the 2nd half against France)

Graham (Thought he made a good impact against France
Carvell (an extra prop is needed on the bench and carvell deserves his chance)
Crabree (he's a very mobile prop and has good hands, if he's fit he could be a bit of a suprise package
Bridge / Westwood

Anyone still have that picture of him taking a high ball full in the face while trying to catch it?



Another fine example of a mediocre player made to look good by operating outside Keith Senior...

I've yet to meet a player that can make thing happen when they dont have the ball, how much did jarrad hayne do against the kiwis when he didnt get any ball?

Is this the right one?

That's the fella.

And people think England's current options on the wing are pretty ordinary...

My word. Didn't Henry Fa'fili score a hat trick on his wing before he just got peppered with kicks when he played for GB? Shame he was so bobbins, because Carney was in his pomp on the other wing.

Just a classic example of picking players based on the club they play for rather than their actual ability or form.

You mean like Myler being picked before Burrow, or Bridge being picked before Gleeson?

Pratt had a fine season that year, but like so many he was never international class.

I'm confused why do people keep puting for example Smith at left centre and saying he'll face Inglis, when big Greg played left centre also.

Jarryd Hayne was playing against the Kiwis, the world champions

he wasnt playing against Wales,

and if Shenton isnt getting the ball stuck out on the wing, come in and get it, demand it, work from the back, and MAKE SOMETHING HAPPEN