OK , so who do you drop for Toulouse and why ?

He said he doesn't want to talk about any club but Toulouse. The thread's about Toulouse. He's not talking about any other club on this thread. Maybe you could tease an answer from him if you start another thread which allows him to discuss another team but Toulouse.

Not much of a ' disscussion ' about a club entering a competition if you refuse to discuss the effect that club entering that competition will have on other clubs already in that competition dont you think

Well possibly to you and me , but to Dally well

Starb,you have this infuriating habit of pointing out facts.

¿Que?

I'm genuinely puzzled: how did Mintball, me or the rest of the admins get into this?

it was a joke, but id misinterpreted what the original poster meant.

i just think insecure fans of other clubs trolling a thread thats positive for an expansion clubs clouds the issue.

as things stand, wakey and salford out, for toulose and widnes.

if salford sort out the ground then go to 16 teams with paris.

wakey arent going to sort out their by the decision time for franchises so they are no hope

Not insecure at all , Leigh are where they are and will remain there for some time

As for me trolling a ' positive ' thread , all I am doing is asking the difficult questions that all you ' positive ' people ignore

So you ignore their on field performance ?

So as I stated earlier , the only criteria you are considering is location and stadium facilities ?

If that is true , just say so

So you'd decide to expand the league and let Paris in only on the basis of how well Salford are doing, regardless of the financial implications on the rest of the clubs on expanding the league? Interesting.

on field performance counts for a much smaller part than stadium, finances etc

wakey dont deserve a SL spot. they are a waste of space. put them in NL1 and let them build up the club properly.

I'll repeat this here as it is relevant:-

Typically the answer for French rugby league already exists in their glorious past.

The model for the game in about the period 1945-55 should be given detailed and careful consideration by the French rugby league hierarchy.

Basically, this involves a structure along the lines of the following:

1. A Championship Top Division of about 12-14 clubs (played for the Max Rousie Shield).

2. A French Club Competition involving the broader rugby league club community in France, thus allowing the growth and encouragement of newer clubs (played for the Lord Derby Cup).

This is what French rugby league needs to get back to, first and foremost.

The ability to use the ESL as a further platform to publicise the game is all a bit of a modern bonus for French rugby league, which should be ADDED to the strength of the original base.

As for teams in the Championship, I don't know how I can be clearer about how unequivocal it is that it again be based around what I describe as the HAND of French rugby league's traditional strength, the five big cities over which rugby league has previously had influence: namely, and in no particular order - Paris, Mille, Lyon, Bordeaux and Toulouse.

This was the case in the period 1945-55. And should be now as well.

Added to this would be the passionate rugby de villages of Carcassonne, Perpignan, Albi, Avignon, Villeneuve and probably Lezignan, Cavaillon and Carpentras.

A return to the Cote Basque would also be in order, possibly through Pau or a Cote Basque XIII.

At this time (circa 1945-55), the French rugby league was also benefiting from regular matches in other major centres such as Nantes (as referred to in an earlier post), Grenoble and Limoges - as examples only.

The passionate underlying strength of the amateur game must be similarly invigorated. At its strongest this allowed clubs like Arcachon and especially Cahors and Lavardac to compete with the professional outfits.

All of this combined to the betterment of French rugby league to produce one of the great international sides in history in the same period (1945-55)...

So you are saying that you are happy to have a squad full of Etrangers with 5 LER players who can't keep up for the full 80. YES there are players of the right caliber who are not making it for the Dragons, BUT they have to make the step to being the best players in the Championship to have a chance to compete in SL. When we took the step from LER to SL we had the best players available, we CRUSHED TOXIII in the Grand Final and then the next year we dropped about half the squad because they just couldn't hack it in SL. What will TO do if they can't even make it in the Championship.

Heya 'Bug.

My thoughts are that in 2012 we drop the worst performing SL club and promote the best Championship club. Atm there's 4 clubs from the Championship that qualify IIRC, from last year's SL the worst clubs would be Salford and Crusaders. I think the Criteria is very clear, it's clubs from the third tier Franchises who perform badly on field - possibly with some view as to crowds/cash and player development.

For mine I think that Paris is pie in the sky, unless they do something in the next year they are as serious a consideration as the Orcas in SL.

For TO there is nothing stopping the RFL from expanding SL by two teams after 2012, in the make-believe world where SF gets up to speed for 2014 we could see two clubs join from France, or 2014 could see Crusaders/Salford re-join along with TO.

Thing is, one year can change everything, next year TO could be really good in the Championship and put together a great bid for SL. Crusaders and Salford could turn it around and make a semi-final. It's fun to postulate now, but there are too many variables for a reliable prediction.

Decided by who and on what criteria ?

Money


So you havent a clue

Expanding the SL by two teams can only happen with more Sky/Sponsor money and for an extra UK side would mean the development of a wider/bigger player pool.


I'm saying that all speculation atm is just that. We can point out the obvious and postulate but we cannot predict accurately.

And yet everybody seems happy to ' postulate ' about clubs going into SL



It seems to me that one without the other is a tad Hypocritical , dont you ?

I think it's fine to postulate, but we must admit it's wishful thinking and pie in the sky. Hence, when someone wants to drag this down to facts and logical possibility they are admitting that they should not be posting on this topic.

Or did I misunderstand your point?

A little , all I want to see is when somebody gives good reasons for a club to be admitted , some other good reasons why a particular club should be removed

Okay, approach from two angles:
* Product on display
* Develop International product.
So a new club should offer better product to the league and/or deliver a bonus to the player pool (Expand English player pool or reinforce another national side).

As we look at things Salford and Crusaders deliver the least on the field, Wakey and HKR add the least to the national player pool. Alot of the decision as to how much value a franchise adds to the league has been done by the RFL with their 3 levels of Franchises, with the "team to drop" being from the bottom tier of the franchises (most of the clubs in the league).

Of the grade 3 franchises (or whatever they're called) you can exclude Catalans as they add player pool and deliver on pitch in last 3 years. Quins also compete and are delivering their own players - though obviously questions remain.

Of the clubs to go up, check criteria, I think it's Widnes, Barrow and Fax.

If the decision were to be made today, I think the question would be can Barrow offer more than Salford?

If I had to guess what will happen, I think there has to be a swap because the RFL said there would be, I think it will be one of the four I mentioned going down. I think that the RFL may, at that point, change the system to give some clubs longer Franchises than others, to allow relegated clubs the possibility of returning earlier than each other. So, for example the promoted club might have 3 years, but the 3 that avoided the drop might have 2 years to improve or be replaced by relegated side. Etc.

So basically you think they havent a clue how they are going to do it and they'll make it up as they go along

At the risk of being pedantic: no clubs will be relegated, dropped, removed, or lose their licences in 2012 - for the simple reason that not one club is in, or has a licence for, or is in, super league beyond 2011.

All clubs applying for a licence in 2012 will be applyng for entry to SL for 2012-14 inclusive, irrespective of whether they held a licence for 2009-11 or not.

So talk like "which club would you drop to bring Toulouse in" is, at best, disingenuous.

Now that IS pedantry in it's purest form - perfected as only it can be - by tb.

Since when have you decided to take up comedy instead of journalism



















































Dear me