Please explain in relation to....

a) where you are sat/stood when said forward pass is given

b) where the touch judge is.

c) where the refereee is.

d) wether the match is on TV or not.

e) where the cameras, if there, are in relationship to said forward pass.

and finally

when you last had an eye test



Forward passes are probably , at times, some of the hardest decisions to make within a split second whilst a game is in progess.

Isn't that then an argument to check by video ref if it was a forward pass?

Why not just rule that, for televised games, given the available information (existing footage) if a pass [ulooks[/u forward in the build up to a try, then it is. That might rule out some pass which in reality might not have been but also allow the video ref to rule on the many more passes which clearly are. Instead of the current situation where the video ref cannot even rule on obvious forward passes.

The main reason many passes "clearly are" forward to so many punters is that they have no idea what a forward pass is (cf Saddened and his belief that putting lines on the pitch would in any way be relevant).

It was a digustingly forward pass and the fact that Hicks, a Super League referee was the linesman makes it all the worse. It's beyond a joke now

Bollocks.

My idea would work. If you had a line going perpendicular to the touchlines at the point the pass is made you could calculate the angle it departs the hands. Don't tell me they couldnt do it with the technology they have today. One of the things used in hawkeye is the angle it departs the hand for example.

People understand forward passes. It's not the fans that are in the wrong. The pass everyone is talking about leaves the hand at about a 40 degree angle. It's so clearly forward.

Warrington's 2nd try last week was more clearly forward IMO, and none of the commentary team batted an eyelid.

If the video ref can rule on offside at the kick, they can rule on forward passes. The same arguments apply.

Class




I know your serious as well.

Scathing self-critique. But, I suppose, fair comment


But if you could, that wouldn't help. At all.


There is a lot of truth in that. Many passes are called forward by the crowd for the sake of it, but every week there are blatant forward passes, which instinctively half the crowd instantly sees and calls, yet the officials ignore. It puzzles me. I have to assume this is done on instructions as I don;ty believe the officials are the only people in the ground who don't see it.

Rather than trying to find a better way to interpret the current wording of the rule, why not just change the rule to require the player receiving the ball to have been no further forward than the player passing the ball at the moment the ball was released AND at the point at which they receive the ball, with the only exception to the second part being if the player passing the ball was prevented from progressing further by a defending player.

It would then be easy to judge forward passes for the VR as it would effectively be exactly the same as deciding whether a player was onside when the ball is kicked.

Technically they could put a GPS chip in the ball which would calculate initial velocity and final velocity over start and finish position. This could trigger a heat sensor in the ball which if forward, this would make the rugby ball too hot to handle and the receiver would drop the ball. This converts a forward pass into a knock on which the ref and video ref can confirm.........easy.

You do know that GPS isn't a pin point accurate system don't you?

No they don’t unfortunately.

With a kick, you can roughly see where the kick is taken, and where the player receiving the ball is at the time of the kick.

With a pass, if the player delivers the ball with the hands pointing towards his own team, due to physics, the ball could travel in a forwards trajectory, depending on the speed the player is moving at.

Momentum, physics, call it what you want, it’s very difficult to police, unless they just say, if the ball ends up in front of where it was passed, it’s forwards, only then could you use the same system as the kick.

But to be honest, there’s a number of try’s scored from kicks where the referee doesn’t bother using the technology, when perhaps he should.

Hmmm I'll give you the benefit of doubt.

Yes, but it's accurate in the UK to around 5 metres, and for forward passes, that beats most refs, and all touchies.

Good to see level of debate, I say put blatent forward passes to the vid ref.

True, true.

Which chap put my wind up idea about the GPS on the BBC Manchester Radio, it was read out more or less word for word, the rugby radio commentators had a right good life but was unsure if it was possible.

So I,ve developed the idea a bit further for accuracy, to get it accurate to 600mm (2 feet) instead of using the intersection of 7 satellites we could put some GPS responders high up on each corner of the ground , cross hairing 4 signals will give us this accuracy, also I,ve developed a soft alloy which would be integrated into the ball this would have the heat sensor and emitter so that the forward pass receiver would drop the ball within 2 seconds, just to speed the game up.

Do you think we should patent this idea under rugby league fans research and developments before other sports catch on to its potential.

I'm sure when I proposed this about 3 years ago, you said it wouldn't be possible.

That is only relevant if a forward pass was judged in relation to the pitch, which it is not.
However, I suppose in theory you could use the information from this to calculate the rest. If you know where the player is when he's passed the ball, and what speed he is going at (just take an average of the distance he's moved over a short time or something if need be), then you know what the forward velocity is of the ball.

If you know the forward velocity of the ball added by the player before the pass, then you could just have an imaginary line perpenicular to the touchline that travels forward at the speed the player was running at at the time of the pass, and if the ball travels in front of this line then it is forward.

The only problem would be accuracy. Measuring the velocity is essential. It would be easy to dictate when a player has passed the ball if you're using a video and slowing it down frame by frame. Would you start the moving line at the feet of the player and judge it in relation to the catching players feet? Or would you do it in relation to the ball (which would be harder)?

I think even if it's out by upto a metre (which is a pretty large inaccuracy range!) it would be better than the situation we have now.


Fantastic. Although I feel that is a little harsh on the player that receives as it's not his fault! A fairer system would obviously see the ball explode within half a second so that the passer is killed.

Apart from the fact that one decision is based on the absolute position of the players and the ball and the other is based on the relative position of the players and the ball, you are right, they are exactly the same

Good quality ones are. They use them in geology to measure land movement of millimetres over long periods of time.

No I said the system you proposed wouldnt be possible. To avoid confusion i mentioned Hawkeye the company, not hawkeye the system.

Even for you Smokey, that's a poor attempt to wriggle out of something you've said!

Its not really complex to say there may be an engineering solution for accurate judgement of forward passes, but your's wasnt it.