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| Quote ="The Avenger"No, Wakefield's initial 6 points were reduced after Andrew Glover submitted his plan to repay and made a number of those repayments all done without the aid of an appeal.
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Was that not an appeal in itself?
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| Quote ="Slugger McBatt"But can't you infer things from the silence? If he was doing things that would present the Bulls in a positive light, as a business the local community can trust again, wouldn't he be shouting it from the top of the town hall? It would be safer to assume that no news is just no news, rather than good news.'"
Nope I don't infer the worst from silence. Over the last couple of years we've had press releases galore (from Peter Hood and Omar Khan) presenting how things were going great and none of that worked out. Marc Green seems much less inclined to release details, good or bad.
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| Quote ="childofthenorthern"Was that not an appeal in itself?'"
I don't know how it occurred, but I assume it was some part of the process of obtaining RFL approval of Glover. He wasn't owner when the season started in Cardiff. I don't recall a formal appeal. I'm presuming Glover presented his business plan, repaid creditors as he took the club over, and the RFL approved it and said "have two points back", which is different to your situation.
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| Quote ="childofthenorthern"Was that not an appeal in itself?'"
Not an appeal, it was part of his taking ownership process.
The penalty at the point of purchase was 6 points but Glover submitted his plan which included details of payments to trade creditors of the old regime and the RFL awarded 2 points back.
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| Quote ="childofthenorthern"I actually think it'll be all the points back or nothing. The appeals panel is supposed to include legal representation and a working knowledge of insolvency practice which suggests to me it's based on the RFL's legal handling of the situation not on any application of their own rules.'"
More akin to the Wigan appeal in relation to the salary cap breach in 2006 then. Should be interesting, bit if so technical, I wouldn't expect an instant decision.
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| Quote ="Slugger McBatt"I don't know how it occurred, but I assume it was some part of the process of obtaining RFL approval of Glover. He wasn't owner when the season started in Cardiff. I don't recall a formal appeal. I'm presuming Glover presented his business plan, repaid creditors as he took the club over, and the RFL approved it and said "have two points back", which is different to your situation.'"
Yes the 6 points in our case was based on someone else's business plan entirely. It does make you think the RFL make it up as they go along.
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| Quote ="Slugger McBatt"More akin to the Wigan appeal in relation to the salary cap breach in 2006 then. Should be interesting, bit if so technical, I wouldn't expect an instant decision.'"
they've announced the appeal will be heard on the 4th June and the decision is expected within 7 days. Although they expected to hear the appeal long before now so I'm not holding my breath.
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| Quote ="The Avenger"Not an appeal, it was part of his taking ownership process.
The penalty at the point of purchase was 6 points but Glover submitted his plan which included details of payments to trade creditors of the old regime and the RFL awarded 2 points back.'"
I knew Glover had announced he intended to settle with creditors but thought that was after he'd taken over or have I got the timing wrong?
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| Quote ="childofthenorthern"Yes the 6 points in our case was based on someone else's business plan entirely. It does make you think the RFL make it up as they go along.'"
But had Marc Green submitted a business plan which included repayment of trade creditors then the mechanism is there for the RFL to award 2 points back as part of Greens new ownership approval.
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| Quote ="childofthenorthern"Yes the 6 points in our case was based on someone else's business plan entirely. It does make you think the RFL make it up as they go along.'"
So Mr Green submitted a plan with money already allocated to pay a ' significant ' % of creditors?
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| Quote ="childofthenorthern"I knew Glover had announced he intended to settle with creditors but thought that was after he'd taken over or have I got the timing wrong?'"
Glover submitted his repayment plan during the new ownership approval process, that plan was for large single payments to selected creditors and not a repayment schedule over 5 years as was the case at Bradford.
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| Quote ="Starbug"So Mr Green submitted a plan with money already allocated to pay a ' significant ' % of creditors?'"
Don't know. Doesn't appear to have been considered as the 6 points had already been applied and the RFL made no statement confirming the points deduction stood at the time Marc Green took over.
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| Quote ="The Avenger"As soon as you resort to that, you've lost the argument! '"
There was no sensible argument to be lost. I am not resorting to anything but an accurate description.
Quote ="The Avenger"Who do you think you are!
So bigoted '"
"bigoted"? Do you have comprehension issues too? What am I bigoted against? Witless posters, maybe?!
Quote ="The Avenger"... that you believe anyone who doesn't share your view is "uncomprehending and witless"! '"
You weirdly extrapolate such a straw man from one word in one post? Stretching it, even for you! There are plenty of good arguments, it's just that you aren't one of the people capable of making them. HTH.
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| Perhaps they're hoping Bradford will fight their own way outa relegation so they don't have to step in and save one or indeed BOTH flagship clubs.
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"There was no sensible argument to be lost. I am not resorting to anything but an accurate description.
"bigoted"? Do you have comprehension issues too? What am I bigoted against? Witless posters, maybe?!
You weirdly extrapolate such a straw man from one word in one post? Stretching it, even for you! There are plenty of good arguments, it's just that you aren't one of the people capable of making them. HTH.'"
Smokey had the brains to pack in the search for justification when it was lost without resorting to insults, by all means you carry on if you want to, you'll be welcome to the LSV next year
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| The Bull are sunk. Go down, take your medicine, regroup and come again. Deal with it.
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| Quote ="The Avenger"Ding a ling, you're right it has.
Is it fair that Wakefield should suffer a loss of revenue, sponsorship and attendance because of Marc Greens inability to read what it said on the tin when he bought his bargain bucket Bulls club?
The uncertainty created by this ridiculous Force Majeure appeal has had a detrimental affect on a club which has done all it can to behave ethically in the face of much the same issues as the Bulls.'"
Wakefield wouldn't suffer anything because of Marc Green getting the points back, if the do go down it's like everyone else they didn't put a good enough team onthe field and would suffer because of that and this retarded system, not because they weren't given a 6point advantage on Bradford
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| Quote ="Starbug"Yes Mr Lewis brought the hugelly successful Celtic Crusaders to SL, well done Richard
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Indeed from 0 clubs in Wales to 2 thriving ones, the benefits of expanding the game.
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| Quote ="Slugger McBatt"Yes, we as a game benefit, because it acts as an incentive to:
1. Not to use administration as a way of clearing debts and ensuring that the team on the park is one the club can actually afford;
2. For new owners to maintain the trust of the local business community by buying clubs with debts attached so that the debts are repaid.
Your argument is utterly illogical and desperate. The fact that he chooses not to mitigate the points penalty is his choice. It's his business decision: does he pay money to mitigate the points penalty, or does he keep the money in the business to rebuild the club, even though he is stuck with the deduction?
It sounds like he wants the best of both worlds.'" your argument is entirely circular. It isn't a defence of there being a points deduction, just restating that there is one ergo there has to be one.
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| Quote ="childofthenorthern"I'm of the opinion that if Mr Khan chose to run the Bulls by running up debt to him, then that's his choice and any loss to himself is down to his actions. Any other creditors (HMRC, Bradford Council, suppliers) haven't made that choice.
I'm agree he doesn't deserve being vilified for making mistakes.'"
I'm sorry, but HMRC, Bradford Council and other suppliers have made that choice by offering a line of credit. It's not nice but it's a risk of doing business and everyone who isn't dealing with an RL club faces that risk.
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| Quote ="Starbug"Smokey had the brains to pack in the search for justification when it was lost without resorting to insults, by all means you carry on if you want to, you'll be welcome to the LSV next year'"
He just went for some ice to put on those two blackeyes and that cracked rib he recieved yesterday.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"your argument is entirely circular. It isn't a defence of there being a points deduction, just restating that there is one ergo there has to be one.'"
I don't see that. It's pointing out that the penalty acts as a deterrent.
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| Quote ="Slugger McBatt"I don't see that. It's pointing out that the penalty acts as a deterrent.'"
Except it clearly and obviously doesn't as a huge amount of examples prove.
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| Quote ="Starbug"Smokey had the brains to pack in the search for justification when it was lost without resorting to insults, by all means you carry on if you want to, you'll be welcome to the LSV next year'"
Not by many people they wouldn't, a fraction of those who watched Leigh in SL, it seems the Leigh fans
, just like you, aren't. Loyal enough to deserve a chance at SL
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| Quote ="childofthenorthern"Yes the 6 points in our case was based on someone else's business plan entirely. It does make you think the RFL make it up as they go along.'"
You are incorrect here. The points deduction was going to be automatic as a result of an insolvency event. The maximum is six, as previously deducted.
The fact that no creditors were to be paid, either by OK Bulls or any potential owner was the reason for the 6 points.
The timescale for the deduction mirrors that of the previous punishment. Had a different prospective owner made a bid & looked to pay off some of the creditors, the penalty may have been reduced.
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