What the hell has happened to Rugby League... it used to be a really enjoyable sport that I played on sunday morning and watched on sunday afternoon...

I have to say in my two and a bit years now living in Sydney... thet is what it is like here... it is still a community... the game has rivalries but the vitriol I see here caused by (seemingly) the licensing process) doesnt exist... everything is about the game... sure the press try to dig dirt but the offices and work places and sunday morning touchlines are all talking about what happened on the pitch...

people on this forum dont seem to talk anymore about the 'fantstic piece of skill' or bone-shaking tackle or tackles....


its sad....

The NFL has certainly replaced clubs in it's time. Albeit by means of relocation.

Really, which ones?

Because I haven't seen any change of attitude in any of them. Some, very few, have expressed a liking for it long before this decision. The rest haven’r changed at all. All I have seen is Widnes fans defending the decision to award our club a licence based only on what is actually on offer and not on what they think should be on offer. That is not supporting the licence system, but merely acknowledging the reality of what it means and how it is judged. What about the Leythers that suppot the licence system? Does thet mean that all Leigh fans also have [i' Super League goggles?'[/i

So, name names and give all these examples you speak of. It shouldn't be too difficult. And be careful not to take anything out of context, because I will ensure that it is pointed out to you.

No

No, because it was just a pathetic little cheap shot, and your accusations, nay calumnies, are false and you know it.

It was an observation , wether you care to believe me is up to you , I am not going to trawl through pages and pages of posts to find the often asked for evidence or link , but they are there ,

I have already seen pretty much every post by a Widnes fan, over the last couple of days, and they are not there. You are just making things up.

Nonsense.

It is just a subtle change of attitude , I have no doubt if we were ever fortunate enough to get the chance many Leigh fans , quite possibly myself ( although I'd like to think not ) would start to see things differently , just human nature I suppose

Eh up , backups arrived

Aye, happen. It seems to be so ing subtle, only you can see it. I think the only change in attitude is from your end.

Were all entitled to our opinions

You've gone down in my estimation with that one, chief.

Was I ever ' up ' after my posts about million pound profits in the Championship

WTF are you talking about?

Your turnover of 2.5 million , and profit of 1 million last year , don't tell me you've forgotten about it already , we spent hours arguing about it , it was the reason I left the Widnes MB alone for months

We've never actually got to the bottom of why you left in a huff. No-one was really taking any notice of you, except to say that you were like a ing stuck record. This has very little to do with my personal attitude towards you.

You’re not making any sense.

He went down in my estimation when his arguments became less about the inner workings of the RFL and more about his fellow championship fans. The reason he can't back up his argument about "widnes fans" becoming arrogant is because there are not nearly enough to justify calling us out on it. The main argument, which has been directed at people who think we had no rights to get a franchise, is that we are the club in the best position. It was never an argument about the righteousness of P & R or licensing.

No you've lost me there , I have never suggested arrogance , temporary insanity yes , arrogance no

I have never suggested that you were anything other than the obvious , in fact only club in a position to successfully move up to SL from the Championship

However in the last 48 hours I have detected a change in general opinion of the Widnes fans from franchising being a bad thing , to being a good thing

Just telling it as I see it

Unless you back it up with something, it is totally meaningless. Just saying it doesn't make it the reality. I am not arguing with you about it because I doubt you, I am arguing with you because I know it is an absolute lie and that there is not a shred of evidence for it.

Look, there are advantages and disadvantages of the licence system. For SL clubs with a 3 year licence, it’s great. For Championship clubs it’s loving disaster!

That’s why I and the vast majority of Widnes fans are against it; or at least the way it has been implemented and abused by the RFL. You simply must have been confused by Widnes fans being elated at the decision or something, because I have seen no change in attitude at all.

Any way. I'm going to watch the last half hour of the Broncos v panthers game I've recorded and then I'm off to bed. I think I've had enough of you for one night.

The Lions aren't a club. It is the nickname of the Wellington provincial representative side.

A right royal cop out.

When Richard Lewis announced the name of Widnes as licence winners it was a joyful moment and a huge relief.However for me,that moment cannot compare to the final whistle at Rochdale in 2001 when we beat Oldham at Spotland and when Martin Crompton was presented with the trophy.It's still P&R for me but as everyone ought to know by now,that's not the game anymore.As has been pointed out numerous times now,the Widnes chairman found out exactly what the RFL required from potential candidates and played that game and won.Other clubs stuck to the same plan and lost.Too bad.Hopefully they will change tack now in their quest for 2015.Featherstone I think maybe have already started that process and never even applied this time.No arrogance or big headedness from this Widnes fan,just joy and relief tinged with sadness to be leaving behind such great clubs and fans.

Yes and they continue to play in the same competition they did before , the Hurricanes and all the other ' super ' clubs were all brand new clubs , that is how SL was to be originally , but some clubs didn't want that , they considered themselves above that

That is why it was SL Europe , it was meant to be a new tier of the sport above the competition already in place , but played in the summer with the original Championship continuing in winter

The fact is that the Championship was a dead duck before licensing ever came about, this was a big part of the problem. It's all very well and good saying bring P & R back but it could be far more damaging to the game of RL as a whole seeing strong clubs ruined by relegation to a division that can be the death of clubs if they are left in for too long. People have this rose tinted glass view of relegation from the 80's and 90's that wasn't what P & R had become in the 21st century. It was a farce where many clubs were competing but openly saying they wouldn't go for promotion.

I understand the damage this is doing to certain clubs, which is why I am not a complete fan of licensing. I think for reasons you've outlined that some clubs will find it difficult to survive without P & R but you've also exaggerated the situation. We had many clubs getting under 1,000 for years before licensing. Hunslet probably won the league with crowds not much higher than that.

Overall licensing at least guarantees some stability and drives up standards but is far from perfect. We shouldn't have a situation where Leigh face a minimum of 5 years before they can apply. I would like the RFL to admit that we have different types of teams and to ring fence the expansion clubs. Then I would like a more fluid system of licenses between SL and the Championship but based largely on off the field criteria. Say, make full licensing every 4 years for all clubs but any C grade heartland clubs are reassessed in the middle of this after 2 years against top performing Championship clubs. I'm not sure I'd keep the on the field requirement as strict as it is but it should still be there.

I'd also disagree that they've made on the field worthless. They were unlucky that Widnes met the sheer minimum that they could. I think they assumed that any club meeting the on the field criteria would probably have performed better than Widnes did anyway.

However it's time to stop blaming Widnes and making out like this was some shock. It was clear from day one that on the field was very much secondary. Anybody who thought otherwise must have been living on a different planet.

Promotion and relegation decided on financial matters alone. That's what you get for selling your sport to a moose knuckle kapitalist bullshine-monger like Rupert Murdoch.

As ye sow ....