That's all well and good Billy, but who's won the bet?????

From page 1 of this thread.....well persevered young William....cracking effort

Which bet? Smokey refused mine... a wise decision



When I get time, I'll have to review some of the bold statements made much earlier in the thread by the usual twitchy suspects to see how accurate their predictions were.

The excellent summer weather this year ended up having very little impact in terms of improved attendances during the months of May, June, July and August. Most weekly rounds during the summer months remained consistently down by around 10% on last season.

Thanks.

The thread achieved what I expected it to achieve.

It was worth all the season long "shoot-the-messenger" abuse hurled in my direction.

I was never going to be bullied into submission

Hull KR... 7495... (7786)


I can live with that given the North Stand was out of action all year. Hopefully now away fans have somewhere decent to sit we may see more making the jouney down the M62 next year.

Thanks William for your efforts, made for interesting reading, even tinged with the obvious negativity. Overall no need to top ourselves yet but lets see if the longer term trend of crowd increases returns next year and this was a blip or if there is a more serious problem for SL.

so,Aside from last season, which had an unusualy high jump over the five seasons, this season is only 200-350 down a week on the other three? hardly a doomsday scenario and not something that clubs cannot put right in the future as we already know the RFL are addressing the current system, but thanks for the updates,made interesting reading and we will see where we go from here.

Interesting thread. More so for Smokey's meltdowns - absolutely top dollar entertainment.

I believe the thread was started because bill eve was trying to make some kind of point about Nigel Wood making a statement last year that crowds were up, which they clearly were as seen by this thread, bills point was and still is utterly ridiculous, I think he thinks the RFL should put out negative press releases or something. Anyway what we have learned is that apart from last year which as Nigel wood said was a big increase in crowds, this seasons crowds are pretty much on a par with other seasons.

Interesting take on the 10% drop in attendances..... it's OK to see a loss of over 1,000 fans per game over the course of the season as you added them the previous year.


The drop in interest in the game across the board (SKY weren't too bothered not to get the RLWC) and the reluctance of fans to pay full price for what they got discounted last year points to fans becoming disengaged with the sport and not interested in paying to see the pointless dross of a regular season that means little when it comes to the play-offs......HKR, who lost more games than they won in 2013 could technically win the competition

It may be a 10% drop on last year but as proven with this thread last year was an anomaly other wise crowds are pretty consistent.

You're obviously a cynical man who looks at everything from a negative angle.

The game has its issues and problems and is now looking at ways to fix these by changing the format.

The thing is that Bradford, Salford & London are responsible for around 80,000 drop. A figure that would've seen the '09 - '11 all bettered.

So these results don't show us that SL on the whole is on the slide, it shows that clubs that have been/are being run quite badly just recently will be punished for it in terms of fans through the door.

Some peoples conclusion is that the drops are because Leeds winning from 5th has shown the regular rounds to lack meaning......well the yardstick Mr Eve used for attendances was 2012, a year that followed Leeds also winning the title from 5th, where the 8th placed team could have a shot at Old Trafford and where P/R didn't exist, so I don't think that conclusion holds much weight even if "you've got one mate who says he doesn't go for that reason".

Whilst the percentages are interesting. Surely the biggest factor in the drops are down to Saints and Bradford.

The massive % drops at Salford, look bad and they are for that club, but in terms of overall effect on the competition Bradford and Saints drop has a massive weighting on that.

At Saints we expected a drop due to last year being the first year in a new ground, although as fans we did not expect quite such a drop. But that was possible due to the style of rugby we churned out to get us out of a hole last year.

The Bradford drop I'd assume would be to do with fans turning up in greater numbers last year, buying extra ghost tickets to support the club during it's financial meltdown.

All in all it's a drop which is a disappointment but seems to be in line with the averages previously seen.

There may well be an increase next year if the new stand at Hull KR draws in extra punters.

It should draw in the punters. It's looking very good and most of it will be for away supporters.

Although we have far bigger issues, I'm pleased we still get people through the gate. The last game for Wakefield against Cas should have been another 3,000 more if we hadn't had the issues but that's how it is.
Although the cheap tickets have caused us a problem, the principleo f getting people to attend will help us in the long run as we have the interest to be able to take the club forward.
Good thread William Eve
I'm looking forward to next years.....

This years NRL averages. Overall down on last year




01 | Broncos 30,479
02 | Rabbitohs 22,261
03 | Bulldogs 19,590
04 | Roosters 19,368
05 | Knights 18,821
06 | Storm 16,302
07 | Warriors 16,197
08 | Cowboys 14,112
09 | Titans 14,028
10 | Sea Eagles 13,522
11 | Sharks 13,471
12 | Eels 12,456
13 | Dragons 12,423
14 | Tigers 11,452
15 | Panthers 10,337
16 | Raiders 10,227

Nope....I am a realist.
12 of the 14 saw a drop in fans. 6 of these were 10% or more and 3 of these were top 8 sides including the hub cap winners.
As for last year being an anomaly and "normal service being resumed", are you saying that between 8,500 and 8,900 is the best the sport can hope for? Wow...and you call me a pessimist



The RFL are happy to "big themselves" up and are masters at covering their s with smoke and mirrors. The recent statement regarding the cache of sponsors delivering more revenue than previous years made no mention of Engage. If Foxy bingo et al were delivering 1.7 million a year we'd have been told about it. The total lack of anything concrete in regards to RLWC ticket sales and comparison to an event 13 years ago smack of spin. The RFL are in the self preservation business.....National Brands wont touch them with a barge pole and the reduction of SL to 12 is a defeatist attitude that panders to a couple of chairmen. What happens when the average stays at 8,500....when HRK still cost 500k to run and St Helens have 1/3 of their stadium empty in another 3 years....do we reduce it to 10?

Local businessmen should not be allowed run a NATIONAL sport.

Further food for thought is that in the past the playoffs were seen as a must see event and tickets were sold at full price.

By introducing the ridiculed top 8 format, fans have lost interest and now the clubs via rfl are having to put on special ticket offers in order to attract fans for what should be the biggest games of the season.

When you think about it, its quite pathetic that Huddersfield v Wigan eg League leaders versus challenge cup winners is a match that no longer sells itself, and so tickets need to be given away for a tenner in order to generate a crowd.

Great for the paying fans, but it sends out a message that the game is basically having to throw tickets at people to get them to bother to attend.

A few more years of this and the game will be finished as a professional sport in this country and will be just a semi pro/ amateur pastime played by a few northerners in ex mining towns.

I personally think the forthcoming world cup is looking like it may be the games last throw of the dice.
If it fails to make money and incurs losses as the last world cup in this country did, it will bankrupt the game.
Last time the clubs were able to bail the RFL out. This time with most clubs on their knees and unable to fund themselves never mind offer any salvation to the governing body, then the RFL will collapse and with it the sport in the UK.

I just hope therefore that the world cup is a big success on and off the field.

No, of course the sport should look to improve in all areas, but when looking at attendances you have to take a broader look than just comparing this year with last you need to look at a longer period to get a true reflection of how the crowds are going and this year is very much on a par with crowds for the last ten years, that doesn't suggest a sport in decline.

The RFL are looking to change the format to try and increase gates and move the sport forward but I'm sure you'll just be happy to moan anyway.

On the topic of the new changes to the SL format. I have shown countless times and I will repeat it for you, how away fans/who the opposition is makes little if any difference to the running of a SL club. The recent dummy spits from some chairman were, like the RFL themselves, nothing other than hissy fits with little or minor substance.

I will Use HKR as an example, but in reality, could use any heartland club to achieve similar results.

13 Home games in 2013. London were the last team at Craven Park, Catalans the first, so there may well have been additional fans at each game for first/last game scenario. 1,036 for London and 704 for Catalan as against their 2012 totals.

Now, if you take the visits of London and Catalans away from the annual average, then HKR averaged 7,438 (7,495 actual) this year and 7,716 (7,594 actual) in 2012.

57 fewer fans per game than the average for the visit of heartland teams in 2013 is 741 fans all season.
122 fewer fans per game than the average for the visit of heartland teams in 2012 is 1,586 fans all season.

Now, let's say that each fan is worth £40 a pop to the club in ticket sales and residuals....HKR lost £29,640 in potential revenue in 2013 because London and Catalan bring no fans. This figure was $63,440 in 2012.

Hull Kingston Rovers benefactors complained about ploughing £500,000 a year into the club. On a turn over of 4 million, this year, about 3/4 of 1% in turn over was lost because Halifax/Fev/Batley weren't visiting. On the topic of heartland teams, Castleford and Wakefield delivered the 2 lowest gates at CP in 2013. Salford and Huddersfield were next lowest, followed by Widnes, Bradford and St Helens.

Increasing the number of games between "local teams" will not increase the average attendance of SL. Even if it did, it would be an artificial inflation created by further marginalisation of an already localised pastime.

The entire "format change" is being done for the wrong reasons and will deliver little in the way of positive results. The teams that are struggling at the foot of the table were increasingly relying on their own development players to deliver and in cutting their cloth accordingly, but because the RFL got involved in an embarrassing rescue of Bradford and the iconic Oddslum, they are now over a barrel in regards to the wishes of a few clubs. When the 12-12 or 8-8-8 format fails to deliver, what will be the next farcical plan chosen to deliver more fans and interest from sponsors?

We have the best sport.......it's just those entrusted to run it don't have a ing clue how to market it! What makes it worse is that the other lot got more to their season opening double header than the RFL can muster for their Magic Weekend, they fill there own stadium with 82,000 for international friendlies and the command media attention whilst the RFL seem almost apologetic for trying to get attention for itself.

If the RFL were serious about taking the game forward, they would invest heavily in London Broncos in the same way the NRL did with their "expansion" teams outside of NSW. They would issue 5 year licences with achievable targets for each club and there would be consequences for failure, not bail outs and ground purchases for the "favourites" and abandonment for the unfashionable clubs. As it is, they buy into the pipe dreams of Salfords new owner (15,000 fans



), let Bradford continue to stagger along with paper thin assurances and pander to the needs of clubs who in reality, have nobody but themselves to blame for not being self sufficient.

This is not a dig at HKR by the way, but surely it would be easier to attract 2,500 more locals to home games than have the RFL change the entire set up of a competition because they don't know how to market themselves slightly better

I really cannot be bothered trawling through that lot.

Can't be bothered or not it makes perfect sense. I'm sure the crowds at the playoff games will again show how poor we are at marketing our game, and the scrapping of licensing will do nothing to improve any of our competitions.
When will the book open on how many of the top 24 (28?) clubs go in to administration by overspending to jockey for position in the 12/12 8/8/8 for 2015?
Personally I think Super League should never have gone to 14 clubs, but the 12/12 model should only have been contemplated on the back of a MASSIVE hike in TV money, and perhaps a Super League sponsor paying anything at all?

Can't argue with any of that logic Gutters. our best avg in SL was 2009 when we finished 4th and avg'd around 8500. I don;t think HKR have avg'd over 9000 in our 100+year history. Cats,London or Crusaders made little difference, most fans refuse to travel to the end of the M62 anyway.

The North stand will make a difference and the club is developing a membership model starting this year with a more affordable payment scheme so that should help.

Attendances for the play-offs are a more accurate reflection of the current popularity of SL, particularly among it's very own core supporters. Therefore cheapo ticket offers of £10 for Huddersfield/Wigan and £15 for Saints/Hull KR and Hull/Catalan have been introduced in a last desperate attempt to ensure attendances for the play-offs this year aren't as embarrassingly low as they've been in recent seasons.

However, it's nothing more than another papering-over-the-cracks exercise. Which other full-time professional sport has to flog tickets for it's big games and finals at such knockdown bargain-basement prices in order encourage fans to bother attending?

Perhaps the game has to offer such bargains because the SL product isn't anywhere near as good as it's most ardent apostles and missionaries profess it to be? Fans have become used to attending SL games on the cheap via cheap season tickets. They clearly do not value the SL product at a price of £20+ a game.

...or perhaps the fans are unable to afford £20+ a game.