Like a fair few people see a lot of what is said by Widnes fans about expansion,

the point i am making is me saying Widnes fans views on expansion are clouded because of the team they support is no different to you saying Wakefields fans judgements on Widnes is clouded by the team they support

Nobody mentioned the majority of Fans,=#FF0000players and officials

Fans yes , how many do you think they had ?

Players some , same with officials and staff

People of Bridgend , loads

So you formed your opinions by speaking to 4 fans where ? Challenge cup final / Magic weekend ?

What did they tell you , was it that Mr Samuels was well respected and liked by the people of the town , that in their opinion they would easilly start to get good home support if they went into SL ?

you spoke to more than 1500 fans? good work starbug, that is commitment

You see this tells me all I need to know about your knowledge of the Celtic crusaders

By the time you knocked off the Leigh fans , the armed forces on a day out freebie , the 2 coach loads of german tourists also invited in for free , the local Cardiff footy scroats that had climbed over the fence to try to kick off with us , not forgetting the RU fans who had been to watch the 2 union matches played before us but who left half way through the 1 st half , you were only just into three figures

This is what I mean , if you hadn't been down there you havent a clue

[pedantThey were two RL games played before us, Starbug (I know, because I watched one of them), but you're right in that they did all bugger off within 20 minutes of the 'main' game.[/pedant

And the Crusaders fans that I spoke to that day were also of the opinion that they weren't ready for Super League at that stage.

another Leigh fan who spoke to 2 cruasers fans and knows lots about the club now

maybe we should reciprocate it and ask leigh fans if the are ready for SL?

Well as we said not all but the majority , the other one was on holiday apparently

Sorry, I'd completely forgotten about your first hand experience of visiting the Crusaders.


Ok then. No, we weren't ready at the last round of franchises, nor will we be next time. And I'm quite happy with that, to be quite honest - I'd much rather continue to enjoy watching my club in a competitive league against traditional rivals than pay £20 a game to stand in the rain at Leeds, Hull KR, Crusaders et al watching five drives and a kick in a league where 'our sort' (ie long-established, small town club punching above it's weight) aren't welcome.

so leigh, a founding member of the NU, around for 100 + years and still havent developed strongly enough to be in SL.

and there one season in SL was such that their crowds were less than that other hotbed of RL which is paris

yeah, the irony of this given your commenets on crusaders is noteworthy

We are not criticising the Celtic Crusaders , merely educating thick aussies and predudiced Leeds fans

So where did you stay on your visit to Bridgend to watch the Celtic boys ?

Was going to reply, but I can't be @rsed, to be quite honest. What the feck does any Aussie, particularly one who has probably never even set foot on these shores, never mind been to the areas mentioned, know about our sporting culture anyroad?

Is SmokeyTA on a roll with another angry thread dissecting muddle fest?

Bless his cotton socks.

Probably looking through past posts trying to suss out how best to get out of this one with any credibility at all left

Credibility? You mean he ever had any!?

In HIS mind , not mine or yours

Because in HIS mind, he's always right? And everyone who disagrees is a flat cap idiot?

I think I'm starting to understand....

Ha Ha. Sometimes i think we're better off not being in super league

You've finally realised that freddie , why in gods earth would you want to be , no matter how bad things are we will all have the pleasure of visiting clubs like Fev,Fax,Doosbury,keefly,Leyth,mutantland and Batley

You know it makes sense

i was at the game vs oldham when they guaranteed promotion

i was so happy when they turned it around in the 2nd half

the stand was full of bitter old flat cappers bagging em so it was even sweeter when they won

since you have so much knowledge on what makes a RL club successful, why not pass it on to your own club first?

i went to the important RL areas in england

a friend offered to show me leigh but since it didnt satisfy the criteria above i passed.

funny way of replying above when you couldnt be bothered replying

just to remind you PSG got higher SL crowds than leigh

City of 11 million gets a slightly bigger crowd than town of 60,000 , shock horror

Club in city of 11 million folds , club in town of 60,000 still has RL

Ah the illeagal immigrants

the population comparison says it all doesnt it.

60,000 population

Wow they must be thriving after 10 years in SL then! Funny, I didn't see any of their results last year.

Interesting description of yourself, "staunch expansionist" I would describe myself as that too, the difference seems to be:

1.I would like to see a broader definition of expansion to include crowd size and financial strength my hypothesis being that a game which has the majority of clubs well supported and financed is more attractive to potential investors.

2. I would like geographical expansion to be on the basis of some sort of structured plan devised, justified and implimented by the RFL. Not by snapping the hand off of the first person who promises the world and yet can't forecast 12 months ahead.

3. My preference would be for the borders of the heartland to "creep" 20 or 30 miles with each geographical expansion club. This, I believe, would minimise the risks for a new club by maximising away support and capturing pro RL people who may be just too far away to regularly consider attending SL matches.You agree The Crusaders project would not be easy, so why make it more difficult than it needs to be? Ifs buts and maybes, however what we could have had (and must aim to have in the future) is an M1 corridor linking Quins and the heartlands. Or, had the RFL's policy been for expansion not so long back (rather than rewarding contraction with a £1 million hand out) the heartlands could have extended South to Sheffield (step one of the M1 corridor) and North East to Gateshead with the (now likely) expansion of Crusaders to Wrexham. All in all much better than the current situation.

My concern with the Crusader's relocation is that although seeming to fulfill my criteria in 3, the move is of desperation, not planned. All of the ground work and support that a new SL license should bring is away to the South.

4. New SL clubs should receive the maximum level of RFL support to ensure the kinds of fiascos we have seen with the Crusaders does not happen again.

5. New licenses should be awarded based on the plan outlined in 2. A conventional bid is not required since we have been told in the RFL plan why a new club is desireable in a particular area and it has been justified through rigorous validating of the plan and auditing of the new club's business plan (proper auditing mind such that if a business plan does not stack up then it is rejected). New clubs which fail are no help to anyone, better to have not had them in the first place and at least retain some credibility in the administration of the sport. No more pretending that bids from "expansion" clubs are on the basis of some cobbled together licensing process.

The clubs in SL now need to be made viable as (potentially) long term SL franchises. Some are currently financially stable, most are not. How then do we sell a game which virtually guarantees a half to 1 million pound losses each year?




Thanks I will. What I will not read into it is (after one year), flippin eck I didn't think it would cost that much, see you later guys you're on your own.