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| Quote ="Him"I agree it’s not easy but I think this is an important area of the game and needs proper oversight otherwise you have to get rid of the concussion protocols. '"
Yeah, this is the worst aspect in a nutshell. Catalans will ultimately weaken player protections if they carry on with this. The other coaches need to pressurize MacNamara over the issue too.
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| One of the "concussed" Catalan players even sprinted off the pitch!
2 easy ways to counter it:
Independant concussion doctor makes the call
The free sub is when you lose the player to concussion.
Example of the current rule being wrong is Cas lost McMeeken AND a sub early in the game due to concussion, Catalan got 2 free subs by faking needing a concussion test. So in essence they had 3 extra interchanges and an extra man on the bench.
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| Quote ="Returnee"Whilst they’re at it, they need to look at the attacking player stepping over the tackler, deliberately fouling the ruck, and winning a penalty for it. Another of Catalans cynical tactics.'"
Correct,and next time anyone tries it, they should be penalised for moving off the mark.
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| Quote ="Gronk!"One of the "concussed" Catalan players even sprinted off the pitch!
2 easy ways to counter it:
Independant concussion doctor makes the call
The free sub is when you lose the player to concussion.
Example of the current rule being wrong is Cas lost McMeeken AND a sub early in the game due to concussion, Catalan got 2 free subs by faking needing a concussion test. So in essence they had 3 extra interchanges and an extra man on the bench.'"
A good answer to solve this has already been given. If the player comes back on after a head test, then it
should be counted as an interchange. That'll stop the fakers.
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| Quote ="Cokey"Correct,and next time anyone tries it, they should be penalised for moving off the mark.'"
This is one of my real bug bears & is embarrassing when referees fall for it. It seems that the quest for a speedy game has led to referees refusing to enforce certain rules against the attacking team.
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| Quote ="Cokey"A good answer to solve this has already been given. If the player comes back on after a head test, then it
should be counted as an interchange. That'll stop the fakers.'"
Stand by for 3 Catalans players taking head knocks with 10 mins to go...and all miraculously passing the 6 day assessment just in time for next week's game...
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| Quote ="Clearwing"Stand by for 3 Catalans players taking head knocks with 10 mins to go...and all miraculously passing the 6 day assessment just in time for next week's game...'"
Ha ha nice one, I never thought of that.
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| Quote ="Returnee"Whilst they’re at it, they need to look at the attacking player stepping over the tackler, deliberately fouling the ruck, and winning a penalty for it. Another of Catalans cynical tactics.'"
There were loads of these instances at the start of last season and following a bit of "outrage" from various quarters, it stopped.
Huddersfield were "fine exponents" of playing the ball (and passing/ throwing it) into an offside player, usually passing/ throwing the ball downwards, clearly not towards another player.
Sometimes this is fair enough but, they (and others) were taking the P., again, this stopped after a couple of rounds.
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| Quote ="Gronk!"Example of the current rule being wrong is Cas lost McMeeken AND a sub early in the game due to concussion, Catalan got 2 free subs by faking needing a concussion test. So in essence they had 3 extra interchanges and an extra man on the bench.'"
Likewise Wigan lost Clubb 2 minutes after he was subbed on, so essentially lost 2 subs and the man from this.
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| Junior Sa’u went off holding his ribs Friday night v giants and then went for a head test
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| Pinched off Nottinghamtiger :
On two occasions Catalans had a player stripped off and ready to replace a concussed player before he became mysteriously “concussed”, having a 15 minute rest and returning to the game just before the interchange would be converted.
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| They're on tv next game right? I think for the first game they get the benefit of the doubt, but if it happens again against Huddersfield then yeah, time to do something about it.
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| Quote ="Khlav Kalash"Perhaps altering the rules so if the player fails a test then the interchange is wiped, but if they pass then it's considered as one of the 8 substitutions allowed as per any other injury.'"
^^^^^THIS^^^^^
For me this is what the RFL need to do a bit like a challenge in tennis for example. If said player fails the test then it doesn’t count as an interchange but if they pass it’s then taken as one of the interchanges.
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| Quote ="Chris71"^^^^^THIS^^^^^
For me this is what the RFL need to do a bit like a challenge in tennis for example. If said player fails the test then it doesn’t count as an interchange but if they pass it’s then taken as one of the interchanges.'"
This has already been suggested a couple of times, but yes i agree, that's what should happen.
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| Catalan player goes for head test around 30 mins and is ok to continue in the second half, only one so far but game not over yet
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| Quote ="djhudds"Catalan player goes for head test around 30 mins and is ok to continue in the second half, only one so far but game not over yet'"
Yep, just happened to be a prop 25 mins in, the RFL need to take a serious look at it.
Catalan also cheating by stepping over prone defenders and playing the ball into them again too, they got a boat load of penalties for it last week.
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| An independent doctor would be the way forward. There have been a couple of instances this weekend of the doctor being on the pitch for defending players when the injuries were not concussion injuries, which had the effect of stopping the game and giving the players a rest.
I'm just surprised that a doctor would embroil themselves in a faked concussion, as they are effectively deliberately misdiagnosing. That must be some kind of ethical issue.
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| Player on field says head hurts, he gets taken off and assessed by doctor, if he’s ok doctor lets him back on if he isn’t he’s gone for game, they can’t do the concussion test on the field
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| Quote ="Gronk!"Yep, just happened to be a prop 25 mins in, the RFL need to take a serious look at it.'"
The other coaches need to call MacNamara out over this. It isn't a case of players randomly subbing themselves when they feel tired, after all. Whatever your feelings about Brian McDermott's post-match interview style, he for one wouldn't have let this go. Other SL coaches need to grow a pair and do likewise.
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| I'd include Shaun Wane in the above too.
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| Quote ="djhudds"Catalan player goes for head test around 30 mins and is ok to continue in the second half, only one so far but game not over yet'"
Same ploy and blatant cheating going on here. That’s two games in a row that a prop (who has shown no sign of a head knock) has been told by the physio that he needs to come off for a concussion test, coincidently at the exact time this provides the maximum advantage to the team.
Catalanns are not doing this subtlety. The number of interchanges they use before the “concussion” one is far higher than it would be - they know full well they are going two “free” interchanges (one before before and one after after half time) or else they wouldn’t use them up so quickly in the first 30 minutes.
It’s blatant on-field cheating and needs to be called out by the other teams.
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| I think we need to be quite careful here, because some very serious allegations are being made against medical professionals, on the basis of nothing greater than anecdotal evidence. I didn't see the Castleford v Catalans game last week, so can't comment on what happened.
But let's look at the Remi Casty interchange last night. He clearly took a knee to the head when attempting to make a tackle and his head then hit the ground with force. It is perfectly feasible that he could have suffered a head injury in such circumstances.
He remained on the ground despite the fact that Huddersfield had an overlap to exploit. The play resulting in a drop out. This is very different to a player hitting the floor after a drop out to attempt to delay matters.
Now, let's look at the rules relating to medical staff. Here are some excerpts from the RFL's Medical Standards:
"The medical staff must use a different set of radios to the coaching staff and must operate on a wave length to which the coaching staff do not have access."
"No member of coaching staff shall use medical staff communications equipment in any circumstances."
"Match commissioners shall be entitled to check both the medical staff and coaching staff communication equipment."
Whilst these are the rules, I accept that this doesn't mean that they cannot or are not being broken. But it is not quite as simple as coaches calling out medical professionals, questioning their integrity and competence, without any substantive evidence.
I would also be surprised to see a doctor put their professional reputation and career on the line to give their employer a very minor benefit. Again, that's not to say it doesn't happen or that clubs don't pressurise doctors, but again, this is also a very serious accusation.
If coaches are concerned about Catalans alleged conduct, then I'm sure they would go down the proper channels of informing the match commissioner for investigation.
What is more likely is that players go down injured and tell the doctor that they are suffering from specific concussion symptoms, leading to their removal and during the assessment, say that the symptoms have resolved, thus gaining the benefit of a "free interchange".
I say this again with the caveat that there is no concrete evidence that I have seen to suggest that is the case. But anecdotally, it seems more plausible than a person who has worked all their life to become a doctor, to risk throwing it all away by deliberately misdiagnosing to please someone like Steve McNamara.
The general point of the post, if this is occurring, it's more likely to be the coaching staff, than the doctors.
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| I don’t think anyone is really questioning the medical staff. It’s obviously coming from the coaches and players.
However, don’t forget most of the time it’s a physio on the pitch not a club doctor. Often these physios are on relatively low pay and on limited term contracts, sometimes even just contracted for that specific game especially lower down the leagues you go. And we’ve seen from the bloodgate scandal that medical staff can be involved in this kind of cheating.
I agree it ultimately lays with the coaches and club officials but that’s not to say medical staff and players can’t be pressured into doing dodgy stuff.
Unfortunately, due to their actions last year with players blatantly and repeatedly faking injury, Catalans have no benefit of the doubt on this issue. They’re going to be suspected. And as they were that blatant last year and nothing was done, there’s no reason to believe they wouldn’t move on to the next step, especially as they have a big pack and there’s reduced interchanges.
Personally I think the RFL should be closely monitoring every single use of a head test interchange. Monitor the time the interchanges take place, the players involved and review match footage to see if there was any head contact.
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| Quote ="SRV"I think we need to be quite careful here, because some very serious allegations are being made against medical professionals, on the basis of nothing greater than anecdotal evidence.'"
Don't think the medical staff can be accused of anything worse than taking a precautionary approach, as indeed they're meant to. Player complains of a head knock, medics act perfectly correctly by taking them off for an assessment..
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| Quote ="Clearwing"Don't think the medical staff can be accused of anything worse than taking a precautionary approach, as indeed they're meant to. Player complains of a head knock, medics act perfectly correctly by taking them off for an assessment..'"
Yep. It’s very easy to fake from a players point of view.
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