You're not allowed to make a legal challenge to franchise decisions.

Think that may well be because the RFL knew the decisions were gonna be opaque, bias and agenda driven.

Says it all really............

Apart from Cas in 2007, tell me the last time ANY team from below SL averaged above 4,500.
Quins have only broken the 4,000 average twice in the last 10 years in SL!!! Also Salford in their last 9 seasons in SL have only averaged above 4,500 twice.

Regarding Craven Park (again), I posted earlier that 3 things would definitely have to be sorted before SL could be contemplated.
1. Toilets
2. Floodlights
3. Refreshment outlets

Yes, a few hundred grand would have to be spent, but nothing that would threaten the future financial stability of the club. Other improvements would be financed on the back of 3 GUARANTEED years in SL. Special dispensation should be given to clubs who are looking to enter SL for the first time and haven't been in the privelidged position of raking in millions of SKY cash for several/umpteen years. Craven Park actually had a new Grandstand installed 10 years ago, yet the likes of Saints, Cas etc haven't made any noticeable improvements in that time. That is a bigger scandal and should be looked upon in a far worse light than those clubs who haven't had a pot to p1ss in for decades.

I find it galling that a Huddersfield fan is giving out advice and opinions on crowds. For decades, Huddersfield Barracudas were knocking around in the gutter and were one of the perennial whipping boys of the sport on crowds far lower that Barrow's current average. Then came the Sky cash and voila. Huddersfield's history is actually proof that a SL team in Barrow would work.

typical. another thread supposed to be about rugby has turned into a shiny toilet and crowd debate

Side note, having some legal expertise at my disposal. To the people who keep banging on about the RFL's little scheme of making clubs sign up to a 'no legal action' statement. In this country, it is not possible to sign away your right to bring in the law where you have had a crime committed against you. To that end, all that would be needed would be a solicitor diligent enough to find written evidence of non-successful license chasing clubs being led by the RFL to believe they were entitled to SL status upon achieving certain goals. A technicality, IMO, that it would be possible to exploit with good quality lawyers poring over all the documentation handed out to the aspiring SL clubs. For example, it is not currently legally possible to sign away your right to legal action against someone or some organisation who fraudulently denies you what has been paid for in good faith. And believe me, clubs have paid a LOT for the goal of SL rugby.

Im not sure any club would choose to pursue it, or could afford it, but it is certainly NOT beyond the bounds of possibility.

Back OT, the Barrow side would need a hell of a lot of additions, just like all current Championship sides. I could probably think of only 2 Barrow players that would be starters in SL for a team with hopes of being anywhere but last.

saints havent made any ground improvements beacause of the new stadium.granted it has taken a long time in coming,but it has been in the process for the last 12 years.various cock ups with the old board and time taken with planning applications and funding haven't helped.but the wheels are now in motion.we haven't had the luxury of being able to share with a football club,but at least when the ground is built it will be OURS.there was never any point in building new stands when we were not going to be staying there.

Anybody not reading the thread from the beginning could be forgiven for asking which Craven Park are we talking about.

You can add new turnstiles to the list. You can burn 500 calories off pushing them to go through.

But how come SL clubs get in this case 12 yrs to get stuff sorted out (18 million+) of murdocks money recieved during this time , but any Championship Clubs dont get any big money or a reasonable time frame to adjust etc

1) Because for most of those 12 years we had promotion and relegation.

2) A number of current SL clubs (including my own) have been warned about their grounds and about the fact that these put there hopes of a 2012-15 license at risk.

saints efforts have been ongoing.we have not been sitting around doing nothing about moving.as i said before we have done this on our own,well maybe tesco helped a little,but no football clubs sharing.when you compare this to the likes of everton fc who have been turned down by government planners for a similiar plan to saints,i think saints deserve a pat on the back.after all,we will be in our stadium by the time the super league requires us to.
as for the championship clubs getting their grounds up to scratch,well halifax and leigh have done very well.and correct me if im wrong here,but is the sky money there to be used for stadium improvements?if it is then thats very unfair because some clubs dont need it as they are tennants at their stadium.

Halifax and Leigh have had very little, if any, input into the stadiums they rent for matchdays. They are council/commitee owned and run. They pay big rent and get very little money from advertising and bar takings etc at the stadium.

Apart from the stands that were built before the council got involved with the east stand - and the ground isnt just rented for match days is it? - how do you know how much rent Fax pay?

but they have still got their act together re getting a stadium fit for super league.it maybe unfair on yourselves as you evidently dont have a council who are willing to help you,but you find yourselves in the same position as saints did.ie do it yourself because no beggar else is going to do it for you

That is the position we are in and [iwe are [/idoing something about it. My point is that it's 10x harder for a Championship club to make improvements as they don't get a guaranteed £1.5M from Sky every year. With no (or very little) Sky cash for the 15 years since SL started, we have at least built a new grandstand. Several SL clubs don't seem to have done [ianything[/i in that time.

What planet are you on? A few hundred grand buys sod all these days. Calderdale Council had to spend around £5,000,000 to FINISH OFF our new stand, a stand which was already built.

its taken us 30 years to get our average crowds anywhere near respectable,to suggest barrow will do it in 1 or 2 is plain daft IMO,if they do then good luck them i say,i wasn't giving advice,just offering an opinion on the topic,my apologies

Quote ="Fax Machine"What planet are you on? A few hundred grand buys sod all these days. Calderdale Council had to spend around £5,000,000 to FINISH OFF our new stand, a stand which was already built.'" My 'few hundred grand' figure was relating to ... [i"Regarding Craven Park (again), I posted earlier that 3 things would definitely have to be sorted before SL could be contemplated. 1. Toilets 2. Floodlights 3. Refreshment outlets"[/i I stand by that figure. New lights = £200K, Toilets £100K tops, Refreshment/bar outlets £200K tops. About £500K would probably cover it. If Calderdale Council have spent an EXTRA £5M to finish off The Shay's new stand then if I was a tax payer I would feel seriously ripped-off. I knows it's about 6 years old, but the 14,000 seater Halliwell Jones only cost £6.8M - www.barr.co.uk/brochures/2008/ba ... tfolio.pdf.

Quote ="Fax Machine"What planet are you on? A few hundred grand buys sod all these days. Calderdale Council had to spend around £5,000,000 to FINISH OFF our new stand, a stand which was already built.'" My 'few hundred grand' figure was relating to ... [i"Regarding Craven Park (again), I posted earlier that 3 things would definitely have to be sorted before SL could be contemplated. 1. Toilets 2. Floodlights 3. Refreshment outlets"[/i I stand by that figure. New lights = £200K, Toilets £100K tops, Refreshment/bar outlets £200K tops. About £500K would probably cover it. If Calderdale Council have spent an EXTRA £5M to finish off The Shay's new stand then if I was a tax payer I would feel seriously ripped-off. I knows it's about 6 years old, but the 14,000 seater Halliwell Jones only cost £6.8M - www.barr.co.uk/brochures/2008/ba ... tfolio.pdf.

Quote ="SRC"My 'few hundred grand' figure was relating to ... [i"Regarding Craven Park (again), I posted earlier that 3 things would definitely have to be sorted before SL could be contemplated. 1. Toilets 2. Floodlights 3. Refreshment outlets"[/i I stand by that figure. New lights = £200K, Toilets £100K tops, Refreshment/bar outlets £200K tops. About £500K would probably cover it. If Calderdale Council have spent an EXTRA £5M to finish off The Shay's new stand then if I was a tax payer I would feel seriously ripped-off. I knows it's about 6 years old, but the 14,000 seater Halliwell Jones only cost £6.8M - www.barr.co.uk/brochures/2008/ba ... tfolio.pdf.'" The £6.8M figure cant be right. Possibly this is what Warrington paid for the stadium, if tesco were desperate for a superstore, as these were built together on the same site. But thats nowhere near what the stadium would cost to build. Keepmoat stadium 15000 £32M en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keepmoat_Stadium Leigh £17.5M en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leigh_Sports_Village Leeds new stand behind the posts £7M www.therhinos.co.uk/club/stadium/index.php

Quote ="SRC"My 'few hundred grand' figure was relating to ... [i"Regarding Craven Park (again), I posted earlier that 3 things would definitely have to be sorted before SL could be contemplated. 1. Toilets 2. Floodlights 3. Refreshment outlets"[/i I stand by that figure. New lights = £200K, Toilets £100K tops, Refreshment/bar outlets £200K tops. About £500K would probably cover it. If Calderdale Council have spent an EXTRA £5M to finish off The Shay's new stand then if I was a tax payer I would feel seriously ripped-off. I knows it's about 6 years old, but the 14,000 seater Halliwell Jones only cost £6.8M - www.barr.co.uk/brochures/2008/ba ... tfolio.pdf.'" The £6.8M figure cant be right. Possibly this is what Warrington paid for the stadium, if tesco were desperate for a superstore, as these were built together on the same site. But thats nowhere near what the stadium would cost to build. Keepmoat stadium 15000 £32M en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keepmoat_Stadium Leigh £17.5M en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leigh_Sports_Village Leeds new stand behind the posts £7M www.therhinos.co.uk/club/stadium/index.php

Quote ="SRC"My 'few hundred grand' figure was relating to ... [i"Regarding Craven Park (again), I posted earlier that 3 things would definitely have to be sorted before SL could be contemplated. 1. Toilets 2. Floodlights 3. Refreshment outlets"[/i I stand by that figure. New lights = £200K, Toilets £100K tops, Refreshment/bar outlets £200K tops. About £500K would probably cover it. If Calderdale Council have spent an EXTRA £5M to finish off The Shay's new stand then if I was a tax payer I would feel seriously ripped-off. I knows it's about 6 years old, but the 14,000 seater Halliwell Jones only cost £6.8M - www.barr.co.uk/brochures/2008/ba ... tfolio.pdf.'" How many seats does Craven Park have? The main stand must hold only about 800?

Quote ="SRC"My 'few hundred grand' figure was relating to ... [i"Regarding Craven Park (again), I posted earlier that 3 things would definitely have to be sorted before SL could be contemplated. 1. Toilets 2. Floodlights 3. Refreshment outlets"[/i I stand by that figure. New lights = £200K, Toilets £100K tops, Refreshment/bar outlets £200K tops. About £500K would probably cover it. If Calderdale Council have spent an EXTRA £5M to finish off The Shay's new stand then if I was a tax payer I would feel seriously ripped-off. I knows it's about 6 years old, but the 14,000 seater Halliwell Jones only cost £6.8M - www.barr.co.uk/brochures/2008/ba ... tfolio.pdf.'" How many seats does Craven Park have? The main stand must hold only about 800?

Facilities
Teams will get one point for having a stadium with a capacity of 12,000 or more. Craven Park holds 7,600
Another point will be awarded if the ground meets the standards of a premier competition in the 21st century.[9 Nope...not even with 500k spent on it
ATTENDANCES
A point will be awarded to clubs with an average attendance of around 10,000 spectators. Another point will be awarded if stadiums are operating at 40 per cent capacity.[9 Nope to 10k.....and 3k isn't your current average either

Finances
Teams will receive a point if they are solvent. Another point will be awarded if their turnover is more than £4 million.[9 You get your first point here AS I BELIEVE YOU ARE SOLVENT
Player strength
Teams earn one point if they are considered to have made a contribution to the competition - that means averaging a place in the top eight over each of the last three seasons. Another point is available to clubs who make a contribution to home-grown player development. That means at least eight members of a first-team squad of 25 should be discovered, trained and developed in the team's home country (United Kingdom or France).[9 Suspect you would get 2 points here

Salary cap
One point is on offer to teams who have not committed a major breach of the salary cap in the last three seasons.[9 Good boys...1 point
Geographical expansion
The final point goes to clubs who do not have another rugby league club within a 20-mile radius.[9
Nil Point

So, even with 500k spent on Craven Park, you are looking at 4 points and that only if the RFL accept your good season last year as a top 8 finish. If so, you are in the same boat as these teams:
Castleford Tigers-Catalans Dragons-Celtic Crusaders-Harlequins-Hull KR-Huddersfield Giants -Salford City Reds-Wakefield Trinity Wildcats....
Now, with Huddersfield having a nice stadium and doing well this year, they may well step up to a b licence next time and The Bulls may drop down......but let's compare Barrow to the rest. Catalans and Quins tick the expansion box...as do the Wrexham Crusaders, so it's unlikely that they would make way...HKR are building things at Caravan park, so will probably be OK as well, leaving Wakey, Castleford and Salford to maybe be replaced by teams from outside the SL. Widnes have the ground, the fanbase to build on and a very wealthy backer....and should be first choice.....so which of the three above do you believe Barrow are best placed to replace? All 3 have been warned that their stadiums are an issue....but all 3 hold more than Craven Park........I doubt very much a 4 point score would replace another 4 point score......so to answer the OP......Barrow aren't ready yet and I honestly think that even the promise of 4.5 mil over 3 years wouldn't be enough....look at quins FFS.....we are shipping 1.5 mil a year on top of the 1.5 we get from SKY........
Barrow are a great club, with a great history, but there is no way they are ready for the top league.....it could well ruin them IMO. Cut your cloth accordingly...carry on winning things at CH level and eventually a backer will come in and make it less of a gamble for you to apply and win a place in SL.

Total construction costs for the Halliwell Jones stadium were £12m - and it was acknowledged as being a cheap build.

One thing you missed in summing up the strengths of various teams applying for a franchise - Widnes are setting a benchmark WAY over the heads of the other teams in the Championship in terms of player development. Look at the current table for U18's rugby. After the preliminary stages of the 2010 Vavoline U18's Academy, the league has been split into three sections - based on points difference. The teams will now play their fellow group teams, home and away.

Group A

St Helens +200
Wigan Warriors +168
Widnes Vikings +74
Leeds Rhinos +72
Hull Kingston Rovers +20

_______________

Group B

Warrington Wolves +6
Wakefield T Wildcats +2
Castleford Tigers -18
Harlequins RL -36
Bradford Bulls -40

_______________

Group C

Hull FC -115
Salford -139
Huddersfield -234
Catalans
Crusaders

Widnes are not only playing in the same league as the SL clubs at youth level, we are competing with them. They have won four games on the bounce in the last few weeks against so called bigger clubs. Our u16's are similarly playing against the SL boys and are unbeaten. Any other club in the Championship has one hell of an argument on their hands if they want claim a successful youth system when compared with ours. Most dont even run both u16 and u18 teams.

I DID SAY...[size=150Widnes have the ground, the fanbase to build on and a very wealthy backer....and should be first choice..[/size
...I fully support the argument that Widnes should be promoted (sic) to SL next time around...I was simply pointing out why Barrow shouldn't. I applaud the Widnes yoof set up.....it's good to see.