It would seem so, however my lesbian daughter and her gay friends might argue with that.

As is often the case Smokey is arguing a completely different point to the one actually being discussed i.e. the sexual awareness (or lack of) in children 8 or 9 years old.

I have done no such thing.

And ignore it if you want, but homosexuality in RL is an issue to be discussed. And Children are an important part of the RL community, and their experiences are also important

no it wouldnt.

I have said no such thing. Though you may want to discuss with your daughter how you use very loaded terms like 'perverted' in this context.
This thread isnt a scientific discussion of the sexual awareness of 9 year olds. If it were i would agree it probably needs moving. It is however a discussion on homosexuality within sport. And as children are a big part of our sport we have also addressed the relationship between homosexuals in our sport and the affects that has on the wider RL community

the thread is headlined Gay Players, not An Investigation into the awareness of sexuality limited to children between the ages of 8 and 9

The point at which you interjected was about the awareness of sexuality in children of 8/9 years old. So exactly what point are you making about that? And in what way does my opinion of the lack of sexual awareness in 8/9 year olds "disappoint" you? What is the attitude that is "still as rife as it is"?

which i addressed

that whilst a child of 8/9 may or may not be aware of its sexuality. It is an age where opinions are starting to be formed. And pretending homosexuality doesnt exist to a child this age gives the impression it is something to be hidden and by extension something bad. These are things that can have a very strong effect on a gay persons life. Especially in the hyper-masculine world of rugby league

That a child knowing its sexuality is perverted. And making a frankly quite disgusting assumption that any child of 8/9 who does know they are gay has been 'abused'

Attitudes like those i have listed above. Along with the pervading attitude that homosexuality has to be kept private

It doesn't , but it is a personal choice , nobody should be put under pressure to tell others either way , which seems to be what is going on here

As to at what age people know what they are sexually , well I'm with Bill on this , to actually know what homosexuality is at age 8 is wrong , plain and simple , if they do know then the people who have given them this information should be being spoken to by the social sevices , especially if these peop[le are adults

Smokey, you have excelled yourself. I do not accept that a child of 8 or 9 can [uknow[/u it is gay. That is all. Which you more or less agree with. The rest of what you put here is simply guff. You might as well have said, and murder is a bad thing thing, it's about as relevant to what I said as what you have put here.

I said nothing about pretending homosexuality doesn't exist or everything you have extrapolated from your own statement after that.





I make no apology for believing that it is simply wrong if a child of 8 or 9 [uknows[/u it is gay (or straight or anything else). Children of that age should not think in those terms. If they do then some adult influence has been exerted upon them which to me constitutes abuse. If you don't like that, well tough.



Ah yes, normal attitudes of a responsible parent

. And then you put another statement that has nothing to do with what I said, at all.

Heard of the place , never been , if I ever do decide to go , I'll know what to wear

There will be gay/bi RL players, i'd imagine team-mates etc know, they just choose not to tell the press, 'cos its nothing to do with them or us

Buy that man a drink. Most sensible post I've read for ages.

As opposed to some on here who seem to suggest that it should be shouted from the rooftops

That may well be true. However it still leaves the question of why are none of the large group of people who are openly/publicly gay also Rugby League players?

Why? I am. I don't shout it out, my friends know and if someone asks me I tell them. I don't have to shout it out or "go public"

For a lot of people, especially famous people, it's an image thing.

Exactly. I'm sure 99% of fans don't know which players are single/married etc (the other 1% being complete stalkers), and I don't see the difference here really.

Nice straw man. No one wants people to be forced to shout it from the rooftops, they just make the perfectly reasonable deduction that the absence of any openly gay players in the entire history of British RL might indicate that attitudes within the game make gay players feel unable to be open about their sexuality in the same way as straight players are. Not shouting from rooftops, just able to take their other halves to the game's social occasions, talk about them in passing in interviews... run of the mill stuff that any normal person might do. Gay people are normal people, as much as any person is. But that is not an attitude prevalent enough in RL for gay people to act like normal people within the game.

player ever casually mentioning the wives or girlfriends in any interview I have ever heard

Yes I do know that gay people are ' normal ' people , I have worked with them , had them as neighbours and have them in my family

The absence of any might suggest 2 other things as well

1 There is none

2 The ones who are consider it a private matter

You ok with that ?

But you arent in the public eye (as far as i know)

Whilst your attitude is absolutely fine and not something i would disagree with, Im not sure what point you are making when we move it back to RL or sport?

How much more 'public' can you go? Your friends know (and that likely will include friends of friends) and anyone who asks knows, who else is there to know?

id also say that an RL player who took your attitude would be 'going public' as if it was commonly known, they would be asked about it and it would be reported.

The fact it isnt shows that players (for some reason) cannot have an attitude of being open about their sexuality, and that is a problem

If there is none, its an issue, statistically there should be, the fact there isnt shows we have an issue within the game.

And there is a big difference between being a private matter and having to hide your sexuality. If a player was openly gay, and their team-mates knew, and the coaching staff knew you are looking at 40+ people knowing. 40+ people cant keep something under wraps without making a huge effort to do so.

If all those people knew, realistically that information would come out pretty quickly, and players would be asked about it. Unless of course they were making a deliberate effort to hide it, in which case we need to ask why the player felt the need to hide their sexuality

There's a pretty simple explanation to all this ;
Despite the fact we live in a more liberal world than we did even in the very recent past, homosexuality is still a very 'taboo' subject. It'll remain that way forever, like it or not.
Having a gay co-worker, a gay team-mate, a gay family member or even a gay person sitting next to them on the bus, is a still a huge deal for a lot of people. I couldn't give two hoots if a work-mate, or team-mate for that matter, was homosexual. However, it WOULD seriously bother some people. Whether you like that fact or not, its 100% true.
Not as many people choose to condemn homosexuality and homosexuals these days, buts its still not a conversation topic a lot of people want to discuss over a cosy family meal.
Its the same in all walks of life. The workplace, football, rugby, whatever, wherever.
The issue of there being few openly gay RL players is not even worth discussion IMHO and lets face it, we're not likely to get any, even in the distant future. The fact that we don't have openly gay RL players is about as relevant as asking why they aren't many openly gay vicars, priests, coal-miners, firemen, police-officers etc...
Like I said, homosexuality is still a 'taboo' subject for a lot of people. Despite what some rather naive people like to believe, we don't live in a wonderful, perfect, accepting, uber-liberal utopia.

Are straight players open about their sexuality? Do they make comments about being straight, or their wifes/girlfriends?

Trying to get people to be "open" about being gay seems that youre trying to say they're different and have to announce it. Why not just leave it as
"sexuality unknown" for all players

The Wigan club have a strong contingent of gay players. It doesn't need to be announced though, same as if players are straight.

Utter bollox , statistics prove nothing other than what is , not what some think they should be , hence why this is a non subject

well yes they are.

There was a feature on boots n all last year regarding a players wives rugby team. Weddings and births etc are announced on clubs websites.


Im not wanting them to 'do' anything. Im saying realistically if there was an openly gay rugby league player we would know about it, Whether it was announced or not. If they were openly gay, it would be reported. If their team mates knew and if their coaching staff knew it would leak out, and then it would be reported. If it was the players choice to announce it or not

So what? if bigots want to get their panties in a twist who cares?

except it isnt. because there are many gay Firemen, Police officers and most probably miners. There is a gay police officers union and many high profile homosexual police officers

Im not naive enough to believe we do. Im saying we have a problem that we dont. Im saying i know people have a problem with it, but the RL community should be making sure that Gay People know we dont agree with them. And Gay People should be comfortable enough in our community not to have to hide their sexuality because of a few bigots. If they arent. Then we as a sport have a problem

So why dont we have any Gay players? is it purely co-incidence?