It's the kind of response you'd expect from a child..."I wasn't the only one", I can't believe that Salford have given this clown a contract

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/24641559 Nicely staged, sat in front of his England shirt and cap in a frame! So, not only is he out of the squad he feels that moaning about it on the national broadcast network is then next step If he was out with others and he missed a recovery session then he is clearly a different case to the others because 1. His disciplinary record is appalling (on and off the pitch) 2. He actually missed the session and the others didn’t Both of these two warrant he be treated more harshly However, I agree with a previous poster that the England players on the beer is a worry for me. They have a huge opportunity with this world cup to propel their sport forward and a huge responsibility to the RL community they represent. Maybe I am naive to think they will take this seriously Still, only three days and we are down to the action of the world cup and all will be revealed, I will be shouting them on as always

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/24641559 Nicely staged, sat in front of his England shirt and cap in a frame! So, not only is he out of the squad he feels that moaning about it on the national broadcast network is then next step If he was out with others and he missed a recovery session then he is clearly a different case to the others because 1. His disciplinary record is appalling (on and off the pitch) 2. He actually missed the session and the others didn’t Both of these two warrant he be treated more harshly However, I agree with a previous poster that the England players on the beer is a worry for me. They have a huge opportunity with this world cup to propel their sport forward and a huge responsibility to the RL community they represent. Maybe I am naive to think they will take this seriously Still, only three days and we are down to the action of the world cup and all will be revealed, I will be shouting them on as always

But a couple of posts back you said that this 'stinks of bad management' and you don't know the full facts. Have you got less than half a brain ???

So half a dozen of ‘em went out on the lash, only hours after a humiliating defeat!

Yet many posters believe it’s the size of the league or the S.C constraints that stop us competing with the Antipodeans

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Professionals, their having a laugh.

how do you know they were all "on the lash"

A couple of beers, even 7 or 8 beers, wont have had too much impact on their physical wellbeing. A few nights out bonding might actually be beneficial for the team.

I'm sure they have been given a warning for doing it when told not to, but it is hardly the end of the world. The Aussies were doing it all last week in Manchester. One guy mysteriously lost £200 and can't remember how. Does that mean they are not professionals?

Missing training on the other hand is probably a step too far, and shows that Hock probably had too much to drink.

This. +1


If they want a drink, wait a month. It's not hard and they can drink themselves silly. Until the clubs want them back.

Is the Dr. K twitter account real? As it seems he has set the level, that if players miss a training session it will be a good telling off nothing more. Not sure Noble will appreciate that. Would it apply only to Hock or can all the Salford players miss training? Will it just be the first occurance or does it count for any missed session.

That's the difficulty with discipline, if you let it slide once, then you have to do it again for everyone.

It may seem harsh but it's a WC, not a knock about with the lads in the park.

There is no real need to be worried. I have no problem with the guys having a few drinks after the game. Its not like a couple of drinks is going to make a difference. In fact it can be quite good at fostering a better team spirit. Most likely the 6 or 7 lads who went out for a couple had 2 or 3 pints to unwind then went to bed ready for camp the next day. One didn’t. The one that didn’t has a terrible disciplinary record, is known to make poor decisions, has admitted to having a substance abuse problem previously and must surely have known he was walking the tightest of tight ropes.

Hocks response simply proves McNamara made the right decision, Hock complains that 6 or 7 also went out, he forgets to mention that means 17/18 didn’t. In Hocks position surely he knew the tight leash he was on, surely he knew that he had been given his umpteenth chance and shouldn’t push his luck. Facts are he can’t accept that he should have been one of the 17/18 squad members being sensible rather than the 6/7 pushing their luck. His dismisses his missing of a conditioning session as unimportant is hardly indicative of a player making every effort to ensure he is physically in as good a shape as possible and his throwing his team-mates under the bus rather than taking personal responsibility for his own actions, his own failings and his own mistakes shows that in his head Gareth Hock was more important than the team.

The Aussies could probably beat England straight after being on the lash

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Did none of Mr Hocks teammates think to get him up, or was he too wrecked to bother going swimming.

We have an amateur set up from top to bottom.

They weren't in camp, so unless they were bunking up with him they probably didnt know he wasnt going to show up.

I was identified as 3 in 1998 and went on to generate millions in a 7 year period but I was treated like a dirty little secret......because I understand their bull doesn't mean I subscribe to it!

It makes me laugh when he says "I worked really hard for this" as part of his defense.
After a defeat like they had, the team has come out a couple of times and said they are ashamed, and that they want to put it right and that they have a siege mentality now.
Wandering in to training after a 10 minute swim and a medical check up might not seem bad in isolation but it is when you put it in context.
Whether he thinks he has worked really hard or not.....he is clearly not taking it as seriously as anyone else in the team.
If I were coach I would ceratinly not have played him. To kick him out is simply a management style question, and is only fair to Ferris that he gets the benefit rather than still letting Hock sit in the back ground receiving the reflected glory of any win that comes our way.

Should those other 6 or 7 players who also went out on the lash be omitted from the team this Saturday?

If so, it'll make the 17 very easy to select.

That'll be 17 from 17 available then

Nobody gives a $h1t mate

Yep not like antipodean NRL players have ever gone out on the lash and brought the game into disrepute!

You really aren’t the brightest tool in the box are you. Of course it stinks of bad management, irrespective of what it was that Gareth Hock had done it has been handled in an extremely poor manner by the England management. As it turns out he missed a 10 minute warm down session on Sunday morning, now tell me that this whole fiasco has been worth it because of that. Yes he has breached the rules and should be punished accordingly (management believe that punishment is expulsion from the squad – fair enough, i’m not disputing that), but they should have gone about it in a much more professional and appropriate manner. This way can only have a detrimental effect on the players, coaches and fans.

Did you think I didn’t know that?

The difference being, they bring home the bacon & win stuff.

To be honest, I wouldn't even mind if the captain or one of the team leaders took a bunch of players out for a few drinks and food to build team spirit after an embarrassing loss.
I've read about that happeneing in more than one autobiography
As coach I'd even accept it and not say anything if I found out. The problem is when it goes wrong you have to suffer the consequences.

He starts off by saying he missed a 10 min swim. Then later in the same piece says and a medical. So he cant even get his story straight when he is trying to defend himself!!

Plus drip feeding the "truth" is what you did when you was 5, not a 30 year old man!

so how much did he sell his story this time? the guy is a mercenary and has brought bad press to what is an important time for rugby league in Britain.

I agree with everything the management team (who I feel are a joke usually fwiw) have done in this case. Druggie Hock doesn't make up the rules and had he done nothing wrong then the 'fiasco' would have been avoided. In which way would you have handled this different ??? I think getting rid of the bad apple helps no end tbh.

As you must be the sharpest tool in the box could you explain why I'm wrong ..... You say that it's stupid to comment until full facts are known.... Then comment that it's management that's wrong without knowing full facts without one criticism of Salfords druggie player.... Hmmm I'd rather be the bluntest tool in the box than not even in the box my Manc friend

I agree. It's not simply the fact that they had some drinks that's the problem. It's that he couldn't get himself to scheduled team activities the next day. He seems to be the only one who couldn't do that. Even if Hock's behavior had been the same as others, then his past record likely puts him on a shorter leash.

There is no evidence of him taking any responsibility for his actions in his statements.

For me Hock has cocked up big time. He broke a drinking ban and missed a recovery swimming session and medical. He may not be the only one to break the beer ban, but he went that step further and whilst it seems to me a coach can turn a blind eye to a few drinks after a crappy game, you can't turn a blind eye to missing squad sessions.

However, I can't help thinking this could have been handled differently. Meet the offence with an embarrassing and costly punishment: make Hock train in a mankini, give him extra drills (nasty stuff he'll hate), make him do the squad's washing, or pay for dinner, or give everyone else in the squad unlimited use of his phone for a day, whatever! - then make him stand up apologise to everyone. And hit him with a fine on top of that. Make an example of him but use it as positively as possible.

I recall other RL and RU videos have shown forfeits for breaches of squad rules and etiquette with bizarre and embarrassing punishments. Missing squad sessions is extremely serious where professional sport is concerned but the response and punishment can be well managed.

This World Cup is in danger is surpassing 2008 as a disaster and it's not even started. McNamara (and the senior players) need to do a fantastic recovery and damage limitation job this week.

So he himself is supporting the allegation that he was involved in a series of breaches in discipline! ?

I disagree with the punishment side. It's more serious than that and unlike in a club situation there is no long term benefit to keeping him sweet. He needs the right attitude now. McNamara shouldn't be having to coach them how to be professional. He should simply be about motivation and strategy.

BUT more so, I don't see why you think the WC is a disaster, or that 2008 was a disaster either. Unless you mean from an England performance point of view?

I fully agree with this well measured post.

Hock is an idiot but IF (a big IF) he is telling the truth, then perhaps it could have been handled as you suggested.

The way it has come out and rumours of players unhappy with the decision does not augur well for the rest of the tournament and shows the manager's poor man management again (they obviously didn't think much of him to go out boozing in the first place).

I still think Steve Mac is a banana skin and no good will come from his stint at England although I will happily eat my words if he proves me wrong as the squad is good enough to put in a decent show!