With Catalan and Tolouse being advantaged. It’s really bad timing only weeks before the season starts as it doesn’t allow players to be vaccinated who may reconsider with the sudden change. Whichever way you look at it Catalans and Tolouse stand to benefit significantly based on the change in rules. Up until a few days ago Uk based teams expected to be able to field players (as last season) regardless of their vaccination status.

While I get this isn’t within the control of Cats, Tolouse it’s hardly a level playing field when promotion and league trophy’s are up for grabs. It’s not as if the unvaccinated players can be made to be vaccinated as it’s hasn’t become an issue till this change and in the UK it’s not compulsary you have to get the vaccine.

It’s just poor timing a few weeks before the season as even if the players were to consider being vaccinated they wouldn’t have time to get their second in prior to making the early rounds.

Not sure what the answer is but I’m sure there will be all sorts of debate on this on Thursday.

Maybe it’s to move French clubs home games to the latter part of the season allowing other 10 clubs the time and opportunity to get double vaccinated. I don’t know.

If a player is unvaccinated then they and their club and their fans have nobody to blame but the player themselves.
There is no scientific or logical reason for avoiding the jab......it's just petulance and misplaced arrogance.

Firstly it's only an advantage to the French clubs if they have all their players vaccinated. Otherwise it's disastrous. If they have then that's to their credit.

Secondly this was expected and had been trailed for some time so whining about it being some sort of surprise is not really true. Indeed I'm sure Carter and other club bosses will have been using the likelihood of exactly this when pressuring their employees to do the right thing.

There will be no changes to the fixture lists to accommodate players who haven't followed basic medical guidance. They will not be able to play and it hurts most those players' teammates, clubs and the fans of those clubs. That's unfortunate but actions - or inactions - have consequences.

But you cant force players to vaccinate. Maybe in France you can (I don’t know) but not in the UK that I’m aware. And I guess the clubs are in a position where when contracts were agreed that it was expected that unvaccinated players would be able to play in France like the whole of last season allowed. You cant guilt players into having the vaccine either because France have changed their stance on it 4 weeks before season starts. It only now has consequences due to this change that’s happened this week. It may have been trialed in France but it hasn’t for the uk or the uk based clubs.

Now if the RFL have stated all players must be vaccinated then that would be a different matter but I don’t believe they have. If clubs had been made aware of this possibility months prior by the RFL so they could consider vaccination on players they sign then that’s also tough if they’ve ignored it. It doesn’t appear that’s the case on the face of it.

It’s not any of the clubs fault but it does have an impact on the game. I don’t know whether anything can or will be done but in the very least it needs discussing as it will be no doubt this week.

I’m tempted to lump on for Catalans top of league finish with this news though. I had them down as 1/2nd place finish but if they’ll be facing teams at home missing a few players from each team it’s tempting to bang on a few quid.

What is the situation with other sports? Rumour is that novax = no play at the French Tennis.....is it the same for footballers, cyclists and union?

Would imagine it’s any sport as it’s more a government decision from France than directed at rugby league.

Nobody is saying you can, and no you can't in France either.
But like I said, actions have consequences.

If any club hasn't known this was likely for at least a month then they really aren't doing their jobs properly. Indeed I think the likelihood of it would have been circulated to them some time ago given this is not by any means a surprise move.

I guess we will find out as more news comes out. Whichever way it’s spun it looks as though cats and tolouse stand to benefit on the pitch (certainly for the early part at least). Certainly a huge boost to Tolouse it helps them get some early wins.

Whilst it appears Catalan have a high vaccine take-up I've heard nothing from Toulouse. We therefore have zero evidence that their squad, already thin, isn't going to be severely weakened by having to play all their home games without several players. It's bizarre to just assume this will be beneficial rather than deeply detrimental to them.

Having read that it applies to Toulouse and Cats players too then you may be right. It remains to be seen and we will get more news as the season gets nearer no doubt. I’m sure I read that Catalan have 100% somewhere.

100% correct

Exactly

Quote ="orangeman"What is the situation with other sports? Rumour is that novax = no play at the French Tennis.....is it the same for footballers, cyclists and union?'" https://www.thelocal.fr/20220117/french ... in-france/ https://www.euronews.com/2022/01/17/for ... s-minister

Quote ="orangeman"What is the situation with other sports? Rumour is that novax = no play at the French Tennis.....is it the same for footballers, cyclists and union?'" https://www.thelocal.fr/20220117/french ... in-france/ https://www.euronews.com/2022/01/17/for ... s-minister

[urlhttps://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/toulouse-olympique-mark-kheirallah-vaccination-22819368?utm_source=leeds_live_newsletter&utm_campaign=rugby_league_lve_newsletter&utm_medium=email&pure360.trackingid=%7B~TrackingId~%7D[/urlSeems Toulouse are potentially down 5 players who won't get vaxxed.
Good news for Leigh who are a few lite in their squad

Going to be interesting once contracts start to get renewed

Personally I would not want Leeds signing any new players if I thought they couldn't play in the French games

I think it will resolve itself, hopefully before too long. Do you not think the justification for mandatory vaccination is waning greatly if not entirely gone now? I totally understood the logic before Omicron, but not now. It's so good at getting past the vaccines to infect people that having the vaccine or not really doesn't impact anyone other than the person themselves. The necessity to take it to protect others really isn't there any more.

Clubs need to be careful with this, especially the clubs in the UK. It is not mandatory to have the vaccines to work here. There is definitely the potential for clubs who base contract decisions on vaccination status to be sued by the players for discrimination. I guess what happens in April with the 80,000 unvaccinated NHS staff will tell us a lot. If they go through with it then perhaps clubs will be able to. But if they call that off, it's hard to see how rugby clubs will get away with doing it.

The point that Carter was making was, what happens if this situation changes part way through the season, which given the fast changing nature of covid, anything is possible.
France could well relax their vaccination rules, thus allowing clubs that travel later in the season to be treated differently to those who have games over there in the first couple of months.
FWIW, players should be vaccinated but, I get his point about potentially having the goalposts moved as we progress through the season.

Equally, RL on both sides of the channel will have to follow the rules of the day, which may change overnight.

Could this skew the competition ?

Maybe, but there is nothing the competition can do about the whims of the French government. The whole situation is in the hands of 1) politicians and 2) the players who refuse the vaccine.

It's worth remembering that those most affected by this are the French clubs, as any unvaccinated players cannot even enter the training ground. Effectively: no jab,no job. Unless the rules change, they can no longer employ an unvaccinated adult.

If there are no nasty twists in the tail, I suspect such restrictions will no longer be necessary by next season. But for now, looks like some teams are going to pay a price for the choices of some of their players.

I think it's unfair to say "Whims" of the French government.

If my club is missing "X" players for their 2 French games early in the season that is our own/the players issue.

You assume one of 2 things
1. Omicron is the last variant.
2. The next variant will be weaker as the virus runs out of steam

Both these theories have been scientifically debunked. What experts have said is that Omicron is potentially a precursor to another more deadly wave (like Delta) with the high infection rate of Omicron....then Vaccines come back into the fold.

As for the 'legalities', ambulance chasers will be licking their lips, but in reality, staff can be removed on "health" grounds. Customer facing staff put customers at risk, shop floor workers put their fellow workers at risk.....you've already seen it with sick pay for non vaxxed folk being cut to statutory......I'm no Lawyer, but I suspect it's full of risks.

The reality as here in NZ that fewer than 2.7% of staff were let go as a result of our vaccine passport mandates.....choice is the employees to make themselves unable to carry out their roles as per their contract.

[url=https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/rugby-league/ian-lenagan-reveals-the-number-of-players-vaccinated-in-the-wigan-warriors-squad-3537772All but 1 Wigan player is vaccinated[/url according to Ian Lenagan.

You appear very limited in your understanding of this pandemic. You do realise variants in the future are not guaranteed to be weaker, but guaranteed to be different as different variants evolve. 85/90% of people putting unnecessary pressure on the NHS are the UNVACCINATED. 96% of all NHS staff are fully vaccinated leaving 40,000 anti vaxers/ vaxine hesitant which is a far greater uptake than the UK population. There are already many organisations and firms in the country making vaccine jabs compulsory or you find work elsewhere.. IMO, R.L clubs would be well within their rights to penalise any player who is unable to fulfil his contract, and contracts mean being able to perform your job if fit whenever and wherever it is played.

Governments have been loathe to throw down the gauntlet to the plethora of legal challenges mandates will bring. It may be an unpopular tactic, but I believe vaccine passports are the best way to encourage participation. If you don't have a pass you can't visit bars, cafes, restaurants, pools, gymnasiums, theatres, cinemas, sporting events, and a load of other day to day leisure activities. Also, if you are.on any form of benefit from the state, then you may face cuts.
It's not about government overreach here, it is about getting out of this pandemic as quickly as we can.
If you have no passport then it is a government mandate and not a business owner. An emergency law could be negotiated through both houses quite quickly so long as it has a time-line of say 18 months. Yes, it will be challenged legally, but taking on the government is not as easy as taking on a single business owner.
NZ stands at 95% double jabbed......we have 250,000 holding us back, but those people are now essentially social outcasts......omicron is here now and we are bracing for cases, deaths and hospitalisations on a bigger scale than we've ever seen, but all but 250,000 of us are better protected from serious illness and death. Currently we have 1 person in hospital and 407 cases in the community self isolating.....this will explode in the next few weeks but measures taken in the last 2 years mean we have only had 52 deaths and of those, 4 were fully vaxed, 3 were partially vaxed and 45 were not vaccinated.
So basically 15% vaxed, 85% unvaxxed........as of yesterday 8,910,000 vaccinations have been administered here....we have had 1....that's ONE death as a result of vaccination.......
As I say, unpopular, but vaccine passports with a government mandate works!

I've just read through this thread jeez - You don't half speak with some authority whilst knowing absolutely nothing.
Currently if a requirement of your job role requires you to be vaccinated to enter another country then your contract CAN stipulate that you must be vaccinated. (that's not just Covid!)
In this case clubs would be within their rights to mandate the vaccination as a stipulation of the contract agreement as otherwise they would be unable to fulfil that contract and play in France. It would be up to the club to decide whether they would make that stipulation or not. So no discrimination.
I myself have had a job working with blood products and a stipulation of my contract was I had to have certain vaccinations before I could take up that role. Perfectly legal.

Another poster who just gets on the high horse and vents because my opinion is different to their own. I didn't speak with any authority at all if you actually read it.

All I did was say there is little justification for mandating vaccines right now. That's an opinion, you can disagree with it. The 'protect others' element, which was the main reason for a lot of people taking the vaccine and supporting manadtory vaccines, has gone out of the window now to a large extent.

The other bits about clubs being careful is also perfectly valid. You may be an expert in employment law like all the people on this thread, fine. I don't mind being wrong on that. But as those SL contracts you talk about likely did not contain anything about covid or vaccination status, I suggested clubs need to be careful on this. The last thing Super League needs is the clubs exposing themselves to potential damages based on a moral standpoint over a vaccine. I didn't declare they couldn't do it or would lose in a potential court case, just suggested they be careful. If for example clubs mandate their players have to be vaccinated and sack three or four, then the laws on vaccines in France change because of the changing picture of covid before that club plays in France, it could get messy. Potentially. There are no legal requirements to be vaccinated in the UK, so it looks exposed to scrutiny if a club decides a players future based on it.